Does anyone have a factory source validating production of a "GTO"? All I know is that there is an M on the way. Franckfort 2015 ,but more a "speciale" interpretation than a "GTO".
There's precedent, enzo had 660hp and 599gtb had 612,so if LaF gets 950hp from it's hybrid setup, 890 from the f12 successor would be ballpark...
Interesting. There is an FF M 2016, so a "Speciale" F12 would overlap nicely towards the planned F12 M for 2017 - if a lightweight F12 really is in the works. Maserati are unveiling their Levante at Frankfurt too, would be an interesting show for the Italians then.
A lot of people are talking about the hp number, but I don't get why it's so important? Isn't it the speed that matters? Or is the hp number in the manual the one thing that matters? No one here is saying that the car needs to be faster, just that it needs more hp.. =/ I know they usually go hand in hand but if you look at the former hard core cars from Ferrari they don't really have a world of hp more than the standard ones (CS, Scud for example) but they are faster and very different to drive, which is what it's all about, isn't it? It feels sometimes as some people would rather have a slower car with 800hp than a faster car with 740hp.. I have yet to see one person state that the F12 needs more power, so 100-ish kg less weight, new electronics, aero, suspension and tires and the same engine will make this car pretty damn spectacular. The hp war will come to a stop eventually, and I'm not looking forward to it because people on every car forum in the world will bi*** about the new car having the same output as the car it replaces.. We will have people arguing over the fact that the 2035 Porsche Boxster is having the same 900hp as the 2030 Boxster, which obviously won't be acceptable! Even if it's 15sec faster round the Ring and 2sec faster to 120mph.. The new RS6 and X5 M being prime examples of this, people just look at the hp number and not the actual performance numbers and then bash the car completely. However, I'm really looking forward to this car, whatever engine they decide to put in it! Sorry for the rant.
Only 1 new model a year according to the latest 5 year plan. That's not including Speciale, Spider, Limited Edition models etc. In theory, that makes the future look like this: 2015 - 458M 2016 - FF M 2017 - F12 M 2018 - New "California" 2019 - New "458 2020 - New "FF" 2021 - New "F12" However, it is Ferrari we are dealing with, changes may occur. There is also a new 5 year plan due before the majority of the complete model life cycle replacements. I don't believe we will see any new models branch out (like the California) such as the silly "Dino" rumours, simply because Ferrari sell enough cars as things are (Sergio has backed down on his big plans).
The silly "Dino" is most than a rumour. It s the only way to produce 15 000 cars in one year...wich is the real SM plan.. V6 twin turbo will be soon in the box.
Where have you been! The F12 needs more power. There are many benefits for this already discussed and it would be a minimal cost/high profit limited run using the existing F12 and your changes above. Exterior mods would be (maybe) some front/rear aero and wheels/tires as you suggest. Interior mods would consist of changing the badge on the dash or offer a 'light weight package' where you can charge more for offering less! As far as timing, Ferrari should release it as soon as possible to give it momentum going into the spin-off. I believe the powertrain, exhaust, and control systems mods have been in test for a while given the evidence such as those hot laps at the Ring last year. The move would also give Sergio an instant win as the new boss and fits in well with the existing 5 year product plans plus limited releases. This would be a limited release of the existing model. The M would come later as planned. This is speculation only - but would be a huge success IMHO.
I do agree with you that it needs more power and all the lightweight track goodies. However I don't think launching it before the M version would be quite wise. As soon as the track version is released. It signifies the end of the model for a V12 Fezza. I would rather wait till 2020 for the 'GTO' version than getting it in a couple years. I want them to take the knowledge from the M and formulate the ultimate track monster out of the F12 programme. Jus my 2cents.
The 458 Speciale was unveiled at Frankfurt 2013, so approx 18 months before the 458 M. If the F12 "Speciale" is unveiled at Frankfurt 2015, that leaves the same timespace for the F12 M to appear at Geneva 2017.
Don't forget that that product ideology belonged to the previous 5 year plan. Now it's all about M's and "selective special series".
Dang I did completely forget. Hopefully though some things are still the same. I loved the 599 life line.
When did Sergio back off of his 10,000 units sold plan? 10 000 is the press number ,and consequently not a scary number for customers... 15 000 seems to be the future business plan number... Impossible to increase the sales at this level without the new Dino ! and...a kind of ...panamera. Actually,production capacity with the actual models lines is near of the max.Delays are artificials.
The 599gtb came out in 2006 with 612hp 3 years after enzo, similar time difference between LaF and the f12 successor if not a little less even.
I read a memo around two weeks after LdM's departure where it was stated no immediate plans to expand, no Chrysler co-op and Sergio staying on board until max 2017 or so before going elsewhere. It also said Sergio had understood he came into the position with too many wide-elbowed plans and demands. A V6 "DINO" IS NOT HAPPENING
Interesting. My initial reaction here when he was first reported to have said this was that you cannot quickly go from 7k to 10k without a meaningful reduction in average price of vehicle sold. So perhaps the answer is not volume but a continuation of the trend to make each car sold more bespoke. Use technology to introduce more flex into each individual car without sacrificing Efficiency.. A different strategy for Racing could also be part of the solution but I don't know enough to guess what it might be..
IMHO, I guess for the F12 limited edition like the 599 GTO (if they ever make one), they will use a different name other than "GTO" or "Speciale". Probably some thing they used before like the "LM" or "Monza".
Very good analysis. (Hence why we have Tailor Made) The goal is to increase the margins per car, which Ferrari has sucessfully done the last few years - leading to their record profits without a noteworthy increase in production. At unveil it was reported that the Cali T production would decrease by 500 units (compared to Cali 30) at least through year one. Augmenting demand, but also an attempt to prevent the more extreme depreciation of early MY cars which tend to flood the market as time passes. Ferrari does not struggle selling cars, so any suggestion of a "budget" or taxation-friendly model (i.e V6) to get sales up doesn't make any sense. If they want to sell more they can simply cut back on their demand / supply strategies.
