Finnerty - do you have a multi rating?
You have probably seen this one before but I'm guessing some others haven't.... Im not gonna comment on it beyond posting the link but I was surprised to see it on YouTube. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcj1zereprc
No, I do not. And, I have no doubt that I may be missing something in regard to SOP after both engines go out, as far as re-starting protocol goes.
Mark- Affirmative, I have. All you can say is sad, taking a minor emergency and losing the aircraft, just like the ATR.
Not related to the original post. That C-5 crash was a massive CRM breakdown on the part of the crew. Pilot error and poor crew coordination all around. No one noticed the wrong engine was at idle. Also, in a C-5, it is procedure to do a 40% flap landing if you're over 600k. The crew selected 100% flaps and at 1:35, you can hear the engineer say "I don't know why we aren't doing a 40 anyway" and then at 1:50 there is more confusion on flap settings. It is important to note that the two engineers were on a hot mic, but the pilots usually aren't, so the pilots never heard. If flaps were at 40% the plane would not have crashed, even with the throttle mixup (ie. two engined). There's a recent animation/cvr video that shows a Martinsburg jet take a flock of seagulls through both left engines on their departure from Rota. They did everything right from a procedural and CRM standpoint and made it back safely (they did keep one of the fodded out engines running so it was a 3 engine approach). I don't think that video is on youtube. These videos aren't supposed to be released.
What the hell is/was wrong with these guys? That was so messed up in so many ways. Is that how the Airforce teaches you guys? Bob
Absolutely not.... The regs very clearly state that at least one crew member must loudly and clearly state "how did a monkey get into the cockpit?" when a crash appears immininent. Seriously though I can't comment on it here.
Bob- Guess civilian pilots never screw up, then. Wonder why the airlines are so hot to hire military trained pilots? Most accidents are crew errors, sometimes compounded by aircraft malfunctions. USAF will stand down entire units after an accident to pound some safety into their heads. Tim- If the engineers were on hot mike, the pilots could hear them. Hot mike only affects transmission, not reception.
The engineers are usually on hot mic by themselves. Pilots in the C-5 community don't pull out the "hot mic" volume knob on their audio panel, so we don't hear them when they are talking among themselves. We have to key the intercom to talk to the other pilot, engineers/scanner, or loadmasters. They also have to key their intercom to talk to us. No one ever explained to me why this is. I'll ask tomorrow.
Tim- That is definitely different. Hot mike generally means everybody on the aircraft hears what you say. Guess your intercom is partitioned. Are the aircraft commander and copilot on hot mike for take-off, at least? We always were in fighters and also during low level, ACT or bomb runs. That C-5 crew could definitely have used the info that they probably had the flaps misset.
Same thing on the C-130.... The Loadmasters have their own private hot mic channel the rest of the crew doesn't hear. I don't have a -1 in front of me to say how exactly it works but it's a handy feature.
Multi-engine training is mostly about dealing with engine failures. Failure of one engine, except in centerline-thrust twins like the Skymaster, creates asymmetrical thrust, causing a yawing moment towards the dead-engine side. There is also a rolling moment towards the dead-engine side in a prop plane because the good engine is pushing more air over its wing, creating more lift on that side. Both of these efects are countered with rudder towards the good side. The saying is "dead foot, dead engine." The windmilling prop creates drag, making things worse. That's why you feather the dead prop: turn the blades so their leading edges face straight ahead by pulling the prop control all the way back on the dead engine. The procedure in a piston twin is as follows: Maintain directional control throughout. Adjust pitch to Vyse (best single-engine rate-of-climb speed). All power controls full forward. This is because it is easier to identify the dead engine if the good engine is producing maximum thrust; you have to push really hard on the good-side rudder pedal. Minimize drag: gear up, flaps up. Identify the dead engine. It is the one on the side of the rudder pedal you are not pushing on. Verify that you have identified the dead engine correctly: pull back the throttle on what you think is the dead engine. If nothing happens, you were right. If your asymmetrical thrust goes away and everything gets quiet, you were wrong. Once you have identified the failed engine, what you do next depends on you altitude AGL. If you have altitude to spare, you can troubleshoot the dead engine and try to restart it. If not, or if you can't restart, feather the dead prop. "Raise the dead." Bank slightly into the good engine to provide a horizontal component of lift to counteract the lateral force to the dead side created by your rudder deflection. Adjust the power on the good engine to maintain or regain altitude. Shut the fuel flow off to the dead engine, and turn off the magnetos and alternator on that side. I have no experience with turboprops or jets, so I have nothing to say about how procedures differ for them. Other postings above imply that there are differences. An engine failure on takeoff is one of the most difficult emergencies to deal with in a piston twin. I presume it's nontrivial even in a turboprop. Maybe the crew's training was deficient.
An additional note: the reason you adjust pitch first is that if you don't control your airspeed, you might let it decay to the point where you don't have enough rudder authority left to counteract the rolling moment created by the asymmetrical lift. That point is called the minimum controllable airspeed, Vmc. When you let airspeed decay below Vmc, the airplane flips over on its back and you die. That's the Vmc roll alluded to in one of the posts above.
Cheesey, I didn't answer before but all transport aircraft have V speeds. It's required for balanced field calculations and 1st and second segment climbs and more. There ARE specific SOP's for engine failure. When you think about it whats the difference between a twin turbo prop or a twin fan jet?
'Wow, pulled back wrong throttle:' captain of crashed TransAsia plane - Yahoo News Pulled back on wrong engine.....DOH!
And it was 2 minutes before they noticed. When the first engine failed and he throttled back the other, wouldn't they have noticed NO thrust at all over that 2 minute period?
