Hans Device - no roll bar or harness

Hans needs a harness to work.

 

NO

 

No!

 

No can do. And tracking a GT3 in 3pt belts vs. a harness is tough. You will spend a lot more energy holding yourself in the seat....hard to drive like that.

BTW, what tires will you run on the track? Are there Hoosiers in that size yet?

 

You might as well save the money for a HANS if you don't have a full harness it won't work and you'll look like an idiot.

 

Disclaimer: I work for HANS Performance Products, makers of the HANS device. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum.

The advice given above is correct, the HANS device has been designed to work with the double shoulder belts used in multi point harnesses. However, if you want a head restraint that can be worn on your body "backpack style" and works with the OEM 3-point belt, Simpson also sells the Hybrid and R3 devices. These are popular among HPDE instructors. You can find them on the Simpson website here: NASCAR Safety | Simpson | Car Racing Safety Belts, Restraints

Please feel free to contact me directly with any head restraint or cockpit safety questions.

Gary Milgrom
VP, HANS Performance Productss
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

 

Pic of the seats? If it has a separate headrest, you can often run a 4 point harness using a harness bar which would allow you to run the hans and be better than the factory 3 point. If it has an adjustable thigh extension, you can run the anti submarine strap(s) through there for a 5 or 6 point. The harness does more to hold you in the seat than a sport seat with a 3 point. Just an idea depending on the seat style in the car.

 

When I was racing I used the R3 style (although I don't think it was 'youth' size) backpack. In fact, I still have it at home. I can try to dig it out of you would like.

I did not feel comfortable wearing that without the 6 point harness systems in the race cars. It only took 1 or 2 times while I was instructing in a car with a standard 3 point harness to realize that it simply wouldn't be effective in a crash.

In fact, even after getting the chest strap quite snug, you still have a significant amount of mobility in your upper spine.


My honest recommendation is to either put in a 6 point harness to use a HANS or don't use one at all.

 

Gary,

I always thought of the backpack style (R3) claims of efficacy with 3 pt belts as a "red herring." First to my knowledge there is little sled testing of R3 "and" 3pt belts. Second there is no black box data of R3 crashes in real life. HANS has the most real time data with known 100G impact survivals. Third a head and neck device is designed to do one thing prevent a specific type of injury, the basilar skull fracture, which is not a typical mode of death or injury with 3 pt belts. So while an R3 sounds like an OK idea on paper from a safety perspective is the R3 any better than a condom in the wallet but still having sex? I think that the OP needs to think of safety as a system. OEM designers go to great lengths to build a safe car and we need to be very careful when we think a modification is a safety improvement. I still think the OP is better off with a HANS and a 6 point parachute modified harness (takes no permanent modifications) or the 3pt OEM system as designed. I would love to hear comments on my statements above and ready to learn something.

 

Gentlemen; I hear your concerns. I will do some research and get back to you. Let me make sure of things before I post. Rob in Potomac, you are correct the R3 used to come in Adult sizes and we actually have a few of those left, but the newer Hybrid models have replaced it. Thank you.

 

Thanks for offering to do this research.

I would also be interested in knowing whether or not there is any data comparing the R3 style devices with the traditional HANS devices when used with a standard 6 point harness system.

I've never personally used the traditional HANS, so I can't say for sure, but I always had a mild concern with my R3 sliding around on me if there was an unfortunate event and allowing more head/neck movement that a traditional HANS.

Had I moved into actual racing rather than time trials, I likely would have upgraded to a new HANS device, but unfortunately life events precluded me from moving into actual racing at the time.

 

Regarding Enzymatic Racer's concerns about head motions, I can't objectively answer that because head excursion is not measured by any test, rather the forces generated on the neck are measured. However, the most common complaint/inquiry we get from people with new HANS devices is "my tethers seem too long, I can move my head too much" which is similar to your concern. I can tell you testing shows the head moves a LOT more without a restraint - please see attached photo.

Regarding using and testing a backpack style restraint with OEM 3-point belts, when on a race track Simpson recommends using a complete cockpit safety system including a full containment seat, Snell rated helmet, FIA or SFI approved head restraint and a 7-point seatbelt harness system. Backpack style restraints have been tested and do reduce neck loads somewhat, but the testing has been done by other parties and we cannot release their data. The bottom line is a helmet, 3-point harness and Hybrid-style head restraint gives more protection than a helmet and 3-point harness alone but is not what we recommend for the safest solution.

I have attached a second graphic that outlines a complete cockpit safety system, and we have produced a video that looks at cockpit safety too. That is available at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691_FgzuKaI

I have a PDF version of this video if anyone desires but I'm not sure if I can post a PDF. PM me and I'll send you a copy or a download link.

Thank you,

Gary Milgrom
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thanks much for sharing this very useful information Gary!