Shock rebuild: Delta Vee vs Bilstein? - Mounts - OEM vs Ployurethane?

Thank you for the compliment...

This was a business decision to drop the 90 day warranty service. This was due to a number of factors. The biggest factor is that we perform a careful blueprinting of the shock during the rebuild process, however we do not re engineer the original design.

The adjuster design in the seals are the Achilles heel of this application.

We take great pains to ensure that it won't leak and yet will turn with the proper amount of effort so the solenoid motor can actuate the variable damping system.

However, over the course of the last couple of years that we've offered the 90 day service we discovered that a few customers we're having difficulties just outside the warranty period, and as a gesture of goodwill we covered the repair. Hence it made the 90 day warranty option unprofitable in the long term.

This is what I explained to the gentleman from Milwaukee today.

Regarding the subject of Ferrari tax, this is again and economic decision in that from my perspective it's a low volume production vehicle and parts are not always available to me, sometimes we have to manufacture ourselves. It would be different if it was a Corvette zr1 from 1996, that application is still supported by the original equipment manufacture and I can get parts, which are similar to the Ferrari F355 yet different enough so they are not interchangeable.

Best,
Rob

 

so what's the difference between two options Belstien offers ?
rebuild $145
revalve $170

are these seperate services? meaning if you pay for a revalve does that include the rebuild?

and odd they don't fix the adjuster shaft seal?

 

"Rebuild" is to remanufacture to original specification.

"Revalve" refers to changing the damping characters (which begins as a rebuild, then goes much further into modification).

I price them as a revalve option to add to a rebuild, Bilstein is grouping the two operations together in their pricing.

Best,
Rob

 

I'll give you another example of this exact situation, Koni shock absorbers no longer supports some of their legacy designs, one specifically is the load leveling shock that they built for the Ferrari 330 back in the sixties. Koni made the decision to abandon support of their product.

This happens all the time to manufacturers, if it's unprofitable what's the point?

Best,
Rob

 

Hi Ken, if I was in this for pure profit I wouldn't be doing it. It's fun and challenging and I enjoy supporting the Ferrari community, building upon my decade experience managing the race team for Lake Forest Sportscars.

We can support other manufactures applications for significantly less cost to the owner due to the fact that it takes less effort on our part, purely a business economic decision. I look at the labor involved, the cost of good sold, and what my profit margin needs to be in order to cover overhead and make some cash. I'm not becoming independently wealthy building shock absorbers.

Best,
Rob

 

Hey Rob,

Any chance you'd be willing to put together a nice 2 or 3-way Ohlins TTX setup with Hyperco springs for around the same price or less than a Moton setup?

 

Let's set up a call please, shoot me an email or pm. Tomorrow post 5pm EST I'll be in the car for four hours or so.

Let me know what application, type of driving (road, track, competition) , I can look into rough pricing in the meantime.

Cool!

Best,
Rob

 

Ok. Got it. I have spoken with you before and I should have your number in an email somewhere.

 

Robb,
How about a group buy on rebuilding some shocks? Say $300 for 5 or more sets? A one time group hug thing. I would bite.

 

You guys have options! First you got Bilstein in carlsbad, Ca.. Second you got Delta Vee. Third you got a hundred shock rebuilders around the country who do this all the time for racers. We racers rebuild shocks annually while most streetcar guys never rebuild their shocks but are in desperate need of rebuilding. So if you search your local area or talk to local racers they car turn you on to the right people. Performance Shock in sonoma for example work magic. That said DeltaVee is the slam dunk turnkey you know what you are going to get. Other rebuilders are perfectly happy to reinvent the wheel for you. Most drivers have no clue what they want or if a particular empirical valving is a good choice. Someone like performance shock can do the job for all kinds of cars but you need to know what you want. You need to handhold them to the point of empirical valving then you need to be able to test that valving to prove its worth. Few drivers have the skillset to do that. That's why people like DeltaVee exist having intimate proprietary knowledge most likely to deliver a package that will work on your Ferrari with minimal reinvention of the wheel.

 

It sounds like they do nice work it's just too bad they made a "business decision" to bend us over on pricing. I think $2000 for a set of 4 is outrageous. Like others posted I'd be happy to pay for the work but could care less about some lifetime warranty. I'm not the dummy paying extra at best buy for an extended warranty.

 

Has anyone actually spoken with Bilstein to confirm that they will not address leaking? I cannot understand how they could rebuild a shock and return it without addressing the leak. That is the main symptom that causes owners to take action. That makes no sense.
Ken

 

Ken, I'm interested in the same setup, as is a third member here. While I'd love to support Rob and leverage his expertise, it's probably unrealistic to expect him to put an Ohlins kit together. I was told by Ohlins two years ago that its retailers don't get access to components, only qualified shops do. Qualified meaning three days of training and having a shock dyno, and these requirements likely haven't changed.

I agree for the money of the Moton kit that Rob resells, I'd rather have an Ohlins TTX36 kit instead. Ohlins refers custom kit development for street cars to PSI in Sonoma. It involves sending PSI a damper for measuring dimensions and mapping out its response curve on the dyno. When I spoke to PSI two years ago they were backlogged for months, but I was also concerned about simply reproducing the original response curve, just in a firmer setup. Would I perhaps benefit from different valving characteristics?

Then there are the spring rates, which stock are softer front to rear, but in Challenge spec are extremely stiff in the front. Do stiff front springs result in low speed understeer and are only appropriate for the track?

Rob's extensive 355 experience should allow him to answer such questions and create custom valving and spring rates specific to individual needs. The prospect of getting it right the first time without experimentation and costly rework is appealing, but I just can't justify spending TTX36 money on Moton dampers.

 

Thank you for your support.

We can build Ohlins based systems.

Best,
Rob

 

Completely uncalled for comment. Poor form.

Of course you're free to choose where to spend your money, I understand that you don't like our price for whatever your reasons, you vote with your dollars, understood...

I explained the situation with this application in another post, the cost difference is not the warranty, the warranty period is a value add, peace of mind for owners investing in good maintenance practices.

Your comment is sour grapes.

We provide valuable services, have many loyal customers, and it's a viable alternative to a new set which would cost more than double what we charge.

I'm glad you're going with the guys in Poway, CA, and that you've decided to address the problem.

Best,
Rob

 

I for one, as an independent repair shop appreciate Rob's products and service. Not for me to comment on his pricing, he sets it where he is comfortable and I willingly pay it. Good service and products will always appear to cost more, peace of mind is priceless.

 

It's your business and your decision. The customer base can be dissapointed but what you've done is not unethical. This is capitalism...

I still believe you could have had a more expensive non-lifetime warranty option but that decision is entirely yours to make.

Price debate aside, I can say Delta Vee's service, communication and work was really really outstanding. I also agree that servicing/getting parts for a 15-20 year old car gets more and more expensive as time goes on.

So, like FBB said, the choice is up to the client, there are options even if DeltaVee is the number 1 option by far, the price may drive you elsewhere.

Keep up the good work and thanks for changing the policy immediately AFTER doing MY shocks lol!

 

Rob I have Gator Gregs 355 now

I see by receipts you worked on this. Is there any upgrade possible or is this the "set-up"

You can PM me at your leisure.

Tim

 

Rob, I'll contact you directly.

Anyone else interested in a TTX36 kit, please get in touch so we might spread out the development cost and qualify for a small volume discount.

 

I might be in for my spider

 

...following up, I replied to your email recently, took a while for details from Ohlins, just checking if you received it.

Best,
Rob

 

Hi Tim,

PM sent, sorry I missed this... You have plenty of options.

 

I suggest you start a competing business if you think it all can be done the same at a lower price.

If you are correct your business should be booming.

I always relish comments from the peanut gallery of what businesses "ought to" charge when they know nothing about the subject matter at hand.

Kai

 

Much appreciated. No rush at all here

 

Thanks Rob, will respond to your email shortly.