1998 550 Maranello "sorting" thread--DIY | Page 25 | FerrariChat

1998 550 Maranello "sorting" thread--DIY

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by moorfan, Aug 15, 2011.

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  1. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    GS Johnson
    Pete- I will take a photo of them on my hood (I have my hood and pad off) over the weekend, but interestingly... I don't see them (they're very small) in your 4th pic of your initial post showing the belly of your hood. I wonder if it was a production change...
     
  2. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    Pete
    #602 moorfan, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    GS Johnson
    No, they look like mini rivets with a small head sticking up.
     
  4. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    #604 gsjohnson, Feb 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is not my hood, but a hood that is on ebay. You can vaguely see the extra nubs on the hood that challenge you when removing and installing the hood pad. Maybe the reason why the pads sag on early 550s.
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  5. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
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    Pete
    GS, I had to go to the ad on eBay to see what you were talking about, and I see them! My hood doesn't have these. I will say this though...the reason the matting doesn't stay down is because it's glued poorly in one spot. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
     
  6. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
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    Pete
    #606 moorfan, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So today I began disassembling the Maranello for major.2 I hope to photographically show all of the things that I am inspecting to demonstrate more of what some of my teachers from this forum have told me SHOULD be included in EVERY major.

    First photo shows completed hood after adhesive cure. Time will tell if this adhesive will prove better than the OEM solution.

    Removing radiator shroud for repainting and inspection of radiators (Photo 2).

    Drivers and passenger's engine mounts, which I replaced four years ago (Photos 3 and 4 respectively). It may not be evident in the photos, but the brace pads are still sitting about a half centimeter above the mount flange. I will measure underneath (something I demonstrated earlier in this thread) to see how much the mounts have sunken in four years.
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  7. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Go Pete, Go! :)

    You'll probably be ready for those cam holddown clamps next week, eh?
     
  8. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    #608 moorfan, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As I started looking around underneath the car, I noticed that if I sat and looked at the coolant radiator from the backside forward (looking towards the front of the car) just to the left of the drain spout there was a bit of coolant sitting on the edge of the flange. It was not evident from where it was coming, but I knew it hadn't leaked from the hoses above or from the flange itself. (Photo 1)

    I then used a Mity-Vac pressurization checker to pressurize the coolant tank to 25psi (after topping off the tank with H20)
    Doing this confirms that I have a leak from the radiator. All that came out at 25psi was that one run and formed droplet of coolant. It didn't even drip to the floor, just that one drop. (Photo 2)

    As much as I HATE the idea of pulling the radiator for such a small leak, I hate the idea of putting stop leak in my Ferrari even more. Maybe a few of the experts can lend me an opinion as to whether or not I should even pay attention to this? Remember this is a cold system at 25psi. The car has never required a top-up of coolant or displayed any overheat behavior.
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  9. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    I wouldn't recommend Stop Leak or Bars Leak or anything similar.

    Much as I hate to say it I think you just gotta bite the bullet.
     
  10. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    Ok Pete we are at the same points...let's motivate each other... :) Keeping in mind that neither of us are 550 experts.
    These cars will run hot with the smallest of leaks...you have no choice Pete but to pull the radiator and have it repaired.
     
  11. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    Dave
    Pete is about as an accomplished DIYer as I've seen so far here. This thread ought to be required reading for anyone attempting to work on their own car.

    I'll bet he's done things even some pro's haven't attempted
     
  12. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
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    Mar 10, 2011
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    The big tablets from Bars Leaks have been used by the Big Three from the factory since the 1950s in most of their cars,according to an auto tech magazine. They are for very small leaks due to metal porosity and other issues,and they have worked for me.
     
  13. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    #613 moorfan, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So it appears that consensus is to pull the radiator for repair/replacement, so here I go. It appears that our excellent friend Sark just posted a thread on this, thank you Sark! I will however, add to the Sark thread the following edit: the AC radiator/PS loop assembly in MY car is held to the water/oil radiator by FOUR screws. The two obvious ones on the top and left side, one on the bottom, and one on the side between the outer edge of the oil cooler and the AC radiator. The last two are accessible only from below the vehicle.

    Radiator draining, yields 5 liters exactly. (Photo 1)
    Block draining (just passenger side) yields another 5 liters (Photo 2)
    Radiator out with attached oil cooler, leaving behind AC radiator and PS coil(Photo 3)

    I saved posting photos of the drainage of the oil cooler, because, well, that's so EASY. :)

    Overnight I will cogitate on where the other 9 liters of alleged cooling system capacity are (WSM states 19l). Can there be 9 liters in the heater core and the drivers side of the block? If there is maybe the customary skipping of the driver's side block drain is NOT a good thing???

    In addition, I will take opinions on whether or not our radiators should be repaired by the local billybob shop or if it should be sent off someplace as exotic as the vehicle is?
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  14. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    I'd sure investigate Ron Davis radiators and compare prices.
     
  15. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    Dave, it's a real shame. I put a mini boroscope into the radiator and it is completely virgin inside. Looks new. Of course I can't get down to the part where the leak is.
     
  16. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Pete, I'll bet there's a fair amount of coolant left in the heater core and the block. With the block sitting in the car with its nose up attitude, it may be good for air purging, but not so good for draining.

    You may have better luck with radiator repair in your neck of the woods, but the bubba repair shops here in Houston wouldn't touch mine when they found out it was aluminum. Shoot, none of them even wanted to clean it!

    One guy made a snide comment that he wouldn't have an aluminum radiator as they were nothing but junk so I had to politely tell him that he obviously must not be planning on staying in business much longer, as the whole industry has gone to them.

    I don't think Ron Davis makes these yet, but C&R in Indianapolis will make you one with slightly thicker tubes, and it'll be a drop in replacement. They're not cheap, but still only about half of what Ferrari want. And I do happen to have 2 used ones here if you're interested, both from '99's and they have the improved drains.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Ladies and gentlemen,

    The local billybob shop can fix it. You can't go to a radiator shop in a nice neighborhood. You need to go to a nice blue collar industrial neighborhood with lots of eateries that say "Taqueria". That is where the people who fix things. I even had my 348 with plastic headers and aluminum fins brazed and repaired and I raced on that radiator until the car got totaled.
     
  18. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

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    #618 moorfan, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So this evening I will post my one positive contribution to society. Finally, a definitive answer as to whether or not the DRIVER's side block drain on the 550 Maranello NEEDS to be opened at coolant change. Does the drivers side of the block communicate with the passenger side with regards to coolant flow, and more importantly, drainage?

    I have wondered about this question, searched far and wide, and NEVER gotten a definitive answer. So, I will do an experiment with an n=1.

    When I first purchased my vehicle, it had been previously serviced by my friends at Bradan, and they like to use the BMW "blue" coolant in the vehicle. At the first coolant change I did, it was indeed blue. Since then, I have used Zerex G-05, which is a definite green color. IF the block passages indeed do not communicate adequately, and there is inadequate drainage, upon draining my drivers side drain I should get at least SOME blue coolant. I postulated that this was ridiculous and that there is probably no need to break your neck trying to get to that drain.

    I drained my car's radiator and passenger side block drain yesterday as posted earlier. Today I removed the entire airbox tubing assembly up to the throttle body, removed the ignition coil, and the secondary air injection hoses that connect to the exhaust manifold. Because our cars utilize two 3:1 exhaust manifolds, if I peered through the crack between the manifolds from above I could see the drain, offset of course.
    I assembled a 6mm hex socket connected to a flexible 90 degree 1/4 inch adaptor, and then that was extended out 2 feet or so with socket extensions. Using that apparatus, I was able to get the socket into the plug (Photo 1)

    Turning the socket broke the drain plug loose and I slowly rotated it with the goal of keeping the plug threaded but loose enough to allow any fluid to drain. Out came fluid. (Photo 2)

    However, I got greedy. If it flowed slowly at one point, maybe if I loosened it just a little bit more it would flow better while still staying threaded. To prove the point of "the enemy of good is better" the plug eventually popped out completely and fell on the floor.

    As I swore, I looked down and noticed that what came out of the block drain was a VERY small amount of fluid. 10 oz or so maybe? And what came out was definitely green, with not a hint of blue. (Photo 3).

    I feel that this proves that drainage of the passenger block drain and radiator drain are enough, and that yearly coolant changes with regular use of the heater in the vehicle to circulate what is left in the core is probably enough to ensure regular fluid replacement.

    Now I am off to figure out how the hell I'm going to rethread that drainplug without removing the damn cat. Grrr.
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  19. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    I appreciate the insight...
     
  20. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior
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    Great info, thank you!
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Pete,

    Thanks for taking one for the team! I on the other hand took a nice drive today. It's 75*F by the beach. I got a big smile on my face. In a few weeks when your major is done you will too.

    I routinely flush not only my radiator but my brake lines and clutch line so that I do not have to go after the block drains or stress about getting all the old brake fluid out. IMO the only reason to do extreme radiator/block flushing is if there is a lack of maintenance, new to you car, or conversion to say Evans coolant. But it certainly does not hurt to go the extra mile. I also use Blackstone labs to get a feel for what my fluids are doing which gives me reasons for changing vs. empirical sounds like a good idea such as 3000mi oil changes.
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #622 fatbillybob, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Oh by the way, when it is time for the rubber mallet try the plastic non-mar face ones. They work much better with barely a tap. It is the only way I have found to easily, with just fingers, remove the pins and reindex pins to the next timing hole with very precise control. This hammer is the USAG plastic face hammer that I refaced with plain Delrin. It is my favorite hammer.
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  23. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #624 fatbillybob, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That's a nice find. Is that in the parts interchange thread?

    Also my 20k mile car intake looked like this. I took the camshafts out and walnut blasted them to look like this. Maybe John is onto something take the manifold off and look at the exhaust valves. I did not get a look at mine. I have no clue if those are as fouled as my intakes.
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  25. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
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    Pete— If you don’t mind taking advice from a water-cooled Porsche owner… The 996 says it has 6 gals of coolant. You can only get 2+ gal’s out when you drain from the engine. So you put 2 gals pure water in, run and drain, 3 times….. top off the last time with 100% antifreeze…. Didn't do the math but you get the right mix and most of the old stuff out…..Porsche antifreeze is about $50/gal and has NO recommended changes!

    On the f-car, (using your numbers of 19L total and 10L drained), just draining 10L gives you 75% new coolant…. Good enough….But, if you fill with pure water once and drain, refill with 6L of pure antifreeze, you get 86% new coolant at a 50/50 mixture. Do again, if your fastidious as hell…..you'll have to do your own math….

    And thanks for this thread…. As said, should be required reading for the DIYer…….Was of immense help to me on my 1st major.......

    Regards….Mark
     

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