Red Bull could quit Formula 1 over current rules

There isn't a single major sponsor at Lemans for the prototype class that the large teams of F1 would consider a major contributor either and the television figures for WEC are appalling and yet many talk that series up no end. Apparently its on the way up even though their is a lack of sponsors and viewers.

Renault talking about a return and Haas joining next year seems pretty positive to me and the sport will be much better off when the 2020 agreement with the large teams expires and the money can be distributed more fairly.

In terms of Ron Dennis he refuses to admit that he owns part of a mid runner, otherwise his car would have a sponsor at an appropriate level. They are Utd, but unfortunately in 2015 for Mclaren its Newcastle Utd not Manchester.

 

Why in God's name would VW/Audi join for 2016, the last year of a screwed up PU spec?

 

Mercedes has always been a company to show up, win, and leave while on top. They did it in 1908, 1914 and 1955, though the Le Mans disaster may have had something to do with the latter. If they win again this year, with nothing more to prove, they might leave again!

 

Why didn't they leaving after winning with Mclaren and then Brawn a decade later? You guys rewrite history to support your viewpoint. The car manufacturers are not the problem, if anything it's the lack of them that causes problems at times (like 2008/2009).

 

+1 !

the only teams that can truly be counted on to hang in are Ferrari and McLaren. M-B quit in 1955 and just returned. Honda left years ago and just returned with engines that may not work. BMW was in and out. Ditto Jaguar. And remember even Luca threatened to pull if F.I.,A. didn't change rules.

Furthermore I don't really believe Marko would have opened his mouth with remarks that have serious ramifications without vetting his comments with boss/owner, do you?

 

Gato didn't rewrite history at all and he omitted M-B leaving Grand Prix racing in 1940 though WWII may have had something to do with that :-(

Having M-B engines in F1 cars doesn't yield nearly the advertising value that racing their own cars does.

 

Well said.

 

I won't miss them...

bye bye...

 

The last year?......

I don't think so - Unless there's unanimous agreement (which as we know is very, very, unlikely) we're stuck with these regs thru at least 2020.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Thank you for the cheery reminder.
Excuse me whilst I shoot myself.


I don't see the formula lasting that long. The question is if F1 does.

 

Mercedes is big enough that it has to go with the whims of the Board. as long as the F-1 team makes money ( and it does ) then the bean counters will leave it alone. the PR is not really that important as MB's cars are more sedans etc... they make only a few "sports" cars.... so the technology is very sparcely spread out in the MB range. Its very hard to quantify competition in any racing sport and categorically show that it sells cars. shirts - yes, cars no.

McLaren are on a tender hook. lack of sponsorship, poor start with Honda. and Dennis an Ojhie ( Sp?) are on the outs... Ron has to find several BILLION $$$ by EOY or he's out... so I could See McLaren being parcled off etc... Cherry buying McLaren or something like that.

The big mfg's have been good overall, but they tend to leave some damage when they go. Renault, BMW, Cosworth in the 80's left teams by the way side, but then the change to Normally aspirated engines saw tons come back in. 1990 - 1991 was the heyday:

Ferrari
Ford
Porsche
Renault
Lamborghini
Mercedes - Illmor
Mugen - Honda
Honda
Subaru

I'm sure there are others I forget but it was great.

 

Traditionally the big automakers were an asset, until they left. Once they started dictating to the sport things changed for the worse.

 

Ford was very, very good for F1 and the Cosworth DFV was the best investment that the Ford Motor Company ever made. What was the initial investment? 100K?

 

In a race that saw only eleven cars finish (and only five of those finishing on the same lap), I think F1 needs to re-think. How long before spectators lose interest?

And, of the 17 that qualified, two didn't even make it to the grid for the start? And, one team didn't even make it to AUS to compete? And, as noted, several teams don't appear to be on solid financial footing. Honestly, it's hard to see why anyone would want to even dip their toe in.

This is a sad state of affairs...

CW

 

I omitted 1939 since the war obviously stopped racing activity. As long as they were winning they would have continued to have been financed by the government. And I agree that being an engine supplier alone was not the same, since M-B was not calling the shots in those situations. As long as someone was willing to pay for their engines, they'd continue to produce them. As a constructor, though, they can decide for themselves when to quit. They could do that but remain as an engine supplier.

 

I don't think numbers of cars is such a big deal. We'd rather see fewer competitive cars than a large field with a bunch of backmarkers just getting in the way. Remember that back in 1969, there were only 6 constructors and the average field was about 13 cars. The racing was great and no one saw gloom & doom.

 

The Mercedes GP team of the thirties was mostly self financed. Any government funds devoted to motorsport were split with Auto-Union.
Granted there was a lot of technological knock on from government financed aero engine work but they sunk a lot more into racing than most think.

 

Reminds me of the much vaunted around here "golden age"....

Those with long memories well remember only the top 3-4 cars finishing on the lead lap, with maybe another half a dozen (if they did well!) finishing at all......

Certainly, McSputter remember those days; they told JB to just keep going on the off chance of picking up some points! As much as I'm not a fan of the Woking boys, I would have chuckled if he had got a point or two.

Cheers,
Ian

 

F1 should be scared if Red Bull packs up and leaves (remember Torro Rosso is as much part of it as well!).

Even fewer teams.

Will Manor survive? Probably not long.

Sauber in financial issues. So is Force India.

F1 with 10 cars on the grid and rubbish noise and 1 team so far in front (1.5 seconds in quali!) there's very little hope any other car can catch them for another full season? People lose interest. Fewer people watching = fewer sponsors and remaining sponsors not willing to put up as much money, whilst teams need more because of ever increasing cost and the need for 3 car teams (all merc podiums...yay... ).

I hate to be a doomsdayer, but F1 has to be extremely careful in making the next decisions, because they're crucial in the sports survival.

 

I do not see any difference between a car manufacturer and all the other main sponsors/team onwers (RB)...They pay a lot of money to have their name on the car or in the team name, but I doubt that the car manufacturer itself does much more than paying and hiring specialists. It is not like in the early days when the cars were built in-house...The best example is Red Bull and the 4 years of dominance, Apple could enter F1 just as every big company/car manufacturer and throw a lot of money in and might be successful if they get the right people for the job. And as every big company they might leave if they do not get the marketing they expect...Williams or McLaren are in F1 because they make their money with that...
That is also the reason why I did not understand all the statements here about Hondas experience with turbocharged engines, the success of the 1980s does not mean anything for the new PU, presumable they do not even have the same people doing the job.

 

The color of the money is the same. Difference is that when RB takes its toys home F1 continues. If MB and Renault take their toys home a lot of teams are left without motors and no alternative source.
At this point they've got the sport by the short and curlys

 

We are only left with fewer teams if Red Bull fold their operations in England and Italy with both teams as a complete write off which I VERY much doubt will happen.

If they leave both teams will be sold to new owners/teams and in that event we don't have fewer teams at all, in fact just some new blood.

 

Bernie could always call in a favour with his friends at Cosworth.

Cosworth reveals 2014 F1 power unit - Racecar Engineering

 

Bernie has friends?

That's news!


I doubt that even Cosworth could find funding to produce a reliable PU.
Today's spec is so complicated and so expensive that only major automakers need apply.