I don't think you have to do your own wrenching even though that is the biggest savings. I just think the owner needs to educate themselves on their car. Have an idea of what parts cost and what is involved in replacing them. If you can show some knowledge on the subject to your mechanic they are much less likely to try to take you for a ride and you can call BS if they do. You get $25k repair bills from owners how go in and say "I think the engine is in the back on this car under that trunk lid but I've never opened it and looked. Do whatever it needs and then call me when it's done."
exactly I've spent endless hours researching/ educating myself on the 355 before buying one. and still spend retarded hours maybe even more now that I own a 355. I'd know for sure if my mechanic was taking me for a ride. but I'm not concerned that he would. as soon as I bought my car I brought it to him. as I knew it needed work. he only charged me 24hrs of labor at $90/hr. when I know for sure he was in to the car troubleshooting things easy in the 35hrs range or more. in fact I was shocked when he only put 24hrs. he more then stood up to the call of duty.
"mechanical empathy". I certainly drive with it but never heard the concept put into words. I like it.
Thats what i'm thinking...I have no idea the need to spend so much money at a service. My car has good headers (so far) updated ECU doesnt leak or puff oil...new clutch a year ago... I could spend 20K on it but would be a waste of money replacing stuff that works. Labor charges shouldnt effect the bill much on some of this work. How long would it take to swap headers,motor mounts or coolant hoses with the engine out? I posted this thread because I was curious about where people are spending a ton of money on their upkeep...I found my answer their not if they know what their doing.... I understand that if you get a car that hasnt had the big stuff handled it could be hard on the wallet. I would assume not many cars out there need valve guides, a lot of them were handled by the recall and the others when a major was done. One Ferrari shop told me that very few if any needed it done and a lot of money was wasted on this. I also wanted a little reassurance that I'm on the right track....thanks guys
Flushing your coolant, and chaniging brake fluid does not become $20,000 dollars. Someone is talking out of their ass plain and simple. You can do anual fluid changes but really why is it so many people want a paper trail of everything. Service this and service that and maintenance. Is it possible to be able to drive a ferrari without having a paper trail stating it was in the Dealership over and over again. I would rather have a car with minimal service. Id like to see that it had its belts changed and what not every few years. But not every three years that is ridiculous. Every 5 years ok. But honestly doing a 30 K service isn't black and white across the board on every car, some cars will need more work done. others won't. Also somethings can be left to be delt with until your next service others can not. so you may have work done in between services. But not necessarily will that happen. There is another thing that I just think is funny. How many of us actually live somewhere that there is a Ferrari mechanic? I refuse to send my cars over two hours away so some kid that works at a Ferrari Dealer to work on my car to make me feel all warm and fuzzy. Its a car its really easy to work on. Do what you think is right for your car, not for what the next owner might want. If its all about getting your money back you wont. Enjoy the toy or buy a poster and put it on the wall. Way cheaper to enjoy it on the wall.
I see it as very simple. The 355 had a few known potential issues of cost significance depending on model and year (valve guides, headers, cats for example), some areas of failure/maintenance that can involve expense since the parts are low production and depending on if there is a cross-part - these may happen or may not (like seat pots or top parts on the spider, leather shrinkage, f1 part costs, shock actuators, pop-up headlights that sometimes stop working, glass de-lamination), and then there's standard wear items like belts, clutch, cv boots, hoses, braking and steering system and fluids. It is a Ferrari, nothing will be cheap and it's not like my NSXs where hardly anything goes wrong. And us California guys cant go to the aftermarket for headers and cats (without swapping them back every two years, finding a smog tech who looks the other way, or out of state reg). For the f355 i have now, i picked one that was well maintained. This bill was for guides, cats, and tertiary stuff related to the engine work. Dealer job. Along with this service receipt are several non scheduled service receipts of $4k to 9k along with regular annual maint. and regular major services. The car has had around $50k in non-major service work over 18 years. I will maintain the car and that will mean predictable costs and the non predictable ones but most of the big stuff is sorted out (though some of them can re-occur). Not bad for a car with 12k miles! Under my ownership it does get driven at least weekly (and I don't see inactivity as related to most of the work done to the car by the way). Image Unavailable, Please Login
My 1999 355 F1 Spyder has 13,000 miles. Bought it wih 9800 on it. The service records show one Engine out major done at 9200 and one 3 years earlier. Both were just over $4K at a shop in New Jersey. Now Im wondering about the authenticy of the service, though I googled and the Shop is indeed real.
ive never experienced anything like a 25k service on my 355. the only way I see getting remotely close is if you were to do valves and heads at dealer prices. the major service itself shldnt run more than 10K to 12K from what I remember, again stealer prices. rather than coming at if from the consumer side, ive asked bradan to comment about their experience from the technician's side. the 355 is one of dan's favorite cars and hes worked on tons of them
I bought two 355 for myself in the last 5 years. Before my ownership, each of them has had a $20K bill, one for valve guides on one car, and the other for a bunch of expensive stuff on the other car. Both cars were owned by non-DIY. I have also done a bunch of major service on 348 and 355 over the years. There is no such thing as a standard major service. They all need something additional to the belts and tensioner bearing. The cost of parts also varied. Some owners prefer $1,000 SRI hoses, some source their own at Kragen's for 10% of that. Some owners pay $250 for timing belts to get the freshest Ferrari branded belts, some owners buy Dayco for 25% of that. My experience over the years for an engine out service: You DIY: For the cost of the parts, you fill in the blank. You take it to a mechanic hack: $2500, and all you get is the timing belts with the engine in the car. Not recommended. You take it to a good independent mechanic: $5,000 labor plus the costs of the parts at marked up prices. $2,000 for 30K kit, $3K for headers, $1500 for cats, $700 for water pump, valve guides job add $5K. Knock $2K off the price if you have the mechanic in nowhereville, Ohio, You take it to the dealer w/o a promotion: $10K for an engine out with parts. $20K for engine out with valve guides. (I have seen the receipts) In addition, some parts are getting quite expensive: Changing three green TCUs will run $500 each, thermocouples $800, changing spider top ECU $2K if you can find it, changing spider cylinders $++, seat potentiometers are impossible to find, fuse box, F1 components, throw out bearings, and 348 engine mounts, 355 engine mounts x 4, and I really feel sorry for you if you mess up a gear box.
I have to agree with TTforcefed and most of you guys on this. We service about 40-50 different F355s a year and I have only seen a 25k bill once on the mechanical end. That car had the dash redone, bumper painted, valve guides, headers, stickynomore, had a burnt wiring harness, bad ABS ecu, etc. Even a full engine rebuild is less then that. I find the repair bills to be similar across the board on most models. If you neglect your car and push off repairs it's a domino effect and the bill only grows. The guys that have there cars looked over once a year, change the fluids, and repair any issues right away spend maybe 1,500-2k a year and do a regular major every 5 years. I'm sure allot of you guys run into the same situation when looking at houses. How many people don't put a dollar into repairs for 20 years then get all surprised when it comes time to sell and the engineering says it needs major repairs. With that said a neglected car can easily have a very expensive repair bill, the parts cost did not depreciate over time. Your still paying to service a 160k car.
Some people believe few 355's needed valve guides if any..I am talking Indy's and a ferrari dealership that told me that...one suggest that carbon build up on the valves sometimes causes poor leakdown in a cpl cylinders an the heads get pulled and valve guides are replaced...what is your opinion on this? Also do think its a good idea to use Seafoam or other products to clean the injectors and valves and crankcase? Some owners have posted some pretty impressive results...what about using an upper motor lubricant in the gas to reduce cylinder wear?
I agree allot of cars have been misdiagnosed and didn't need valve guides. We had a 99 car come in that originally had steel valve guides from the factory show me a receipt for a valve guide job on his previous major. But it is an actual issue with bronze cars. When you take the spring pressure off you can get a good amount of valve movement side to side. Seafoam works well, on direct injection cars it's almost routine to remove the build up. Allot of the other products are just snake oil though. Keep up on your oil changes and the car should be fine.
Here is a quick breakdown of my $20k service in 2012: -Done by Ferrari of Ft Lauderdale restoration department -Standard major service (belts, tensioners, plugs, fluids, etc) -Both cylinder heads fully rebuilt with new valves, guides, and 360 seats -Rebuilt ebrake (new shoes, hardware, cable adjustment) -Replaced axle boots -Repaired driver window guide -Full exterior detail -Transport from VA>FL>VA
