You can still get a gun from just about anywhere. Anyhow, a cleaner and perhaps more fun way is to down plenty of whisky + a couple of speedballs (heroin + cocaine). We will probably never know why this man did this (unless they find some suicide notes at home) but I suspect this may well be to do with clinical depression. It's horrible to live with, and has to be understood better. I just don't understand why someone wants to go out and take innocents with them, especially babies/teens. Does not compute for me.
Happened a number of years ago at FedEx. Only heard the full story because a friend was in Fed Ex management. Recently divorced pilot found out he was to be terminated. Talked his way aboard a company plane outbound at main hub (Memphis ?), a DC10 as I recall. He tried a takeover after take off, overpowered CP and nearly overpowered the pilot. Pilot very badly injured got the plane back down. Heard he was near passing out from lack of blood. Found out later the plan was to crash into the main parcel handling building to do as much damage to FedEx as possible.
its a mental illness. its people with thoughts like yours that keep folks thinking about hurting themselves on the downlow. They are embarassed to get help. we shouldn't admonish these mentally ill people, we should try to understand them so we can help them. if anybody thinks about suicide, they should be encouraged to seek help. Usually suicidal thoughts are not permanent and treatments helps a lot.
I hate to say this, but this is where an advanced algorithm scrubbing "big data collections" would be helpful in identifying people likely to be a danger. There's always a trail of breadcrumbs it seems. Like instances of searching for certain keywords paired with deleting your social media accounts could trigger some sort of investigation. Its science fiction for now, but in a few decades who knows.
This story was reported publicly too: Federal Express Flight 705 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia >8^\ ER
There have been books written about the FedEx attempted hijacking. Nothing secret about it. The crew (particularly the FO) were heroes, in that instance. I think all of them were so badly injured they were unable to return to flying.
The FedEx case was the first thing I thought of on 9/11 while everyone was pretending that "no one could have ever imagined" such a thing happening.
PSA flight 1771 December 7, 1987 Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's a tough question to answer. Now that we know it was deliberate, a few scenarios come to mind. -The co-pilot wanted to make sure everyone knew it was deliberate by setting the auto-pilot for a consistent descent at a regulated speed. - A possible reason for regulated descent could be so the Co-pilot could barricade the cockpit door with additional force to ensure nobody could enter. - Note: The reinforced doors are NOT built like bank vaults but they are strong and bullet resistant. The surrounding structure is space frame construction with reinforced jams and sills. I hesitate to mention this but anybody working aircraft maintenance has access to this info. * IF I was the pilot you could bet I would be going at the door like a freight train and if I couldn't I would find somebody BIG AND HEAVY that could. He had eight minutes to try......... I can't help but think that they could have gotten through that door in time if it was not for the Co-pilot on the other side.
I think he wanted to set a rate which was gentle enough that no one would notice for a while. If you think about it, captain gets up, uses the restroom, says hello to the FA, grabs a bottle of water, maybe notices that they're descending but figures that they're just going down a few thousand feet for some reason... and before you know it, you've used up half the time... or more.
Do we really have enough evidence to confirm this was the case? What we know is: 1. We have a sound recording. 2. We have a German airline plane and therefore assume it is well maintained, and it was just serviced. 3. Apparently the co-pilot suffered from depression. And on another note, what is the solution?. Screening people does not work as the mind can turn dark very quickly. As with computer controlled cars, I'm not sure I'd ever trust a computer, computer program(s) and sensors enough to get on a completely automated plane ... hmmm ??? Pete
First question is -- do we need a solution. Life is not perfect and never will be. In the 8 minutes this plane fell from the skies, 20 people died in their bathtubs... and every 8 minutes there after. As long as you have humans doing or making things, humans will screw up somehow. To me the only "solution" if you call it that is have a ground operated override that puts the plane in auto land mode at the nearest airport. It's similar to how drones land now. Once the ground staff sees a problem and the pilots refuse to answer, let the plane ignore all pilot input and go to auto pilot until things can be worked out. But that's not perfect either as a lot of drones crash.
I don't think he had 8 minutes. Probably more like 1. First he didn't even know what was going on. Who would assume this was happening? Then he rings the cockpit. No answer. That's strange. Let me try again. Then he's confused and trying to figure out what's happening. He asks people like the flight attendants if they know anything. He asks them to ring the cockpit Next he tried to knock (being polite to another pilot). That doesn't work. Then he knocks harder, but doesn't want to upset the passengers seeing what's going on. Then he starts to yell and beg. Then he sees how little time is left and he starts to pound down the door. Then he asks some big people in first class to help. They are confused and that takes some time to organize in the chaos. Then they hit the door several times. Nothing happens. Then it's too late. I bet the "break down the door" option was dead last in their to do list. It wasn't until it was a last resort that they tried. Killed by politeness.
Anyone know if they were the same two pilots on the leg from Dusseldorf to Barcelona that had arrived an hour before this flight departed? >8^) ER
That is a good question. TheMayor, While I understand your comment regarding human failings, finding solutions is how the aero industry got as safe as it is today. When we find a fault we should attempt to resolve it. And we need to remember how horrific it was for those people to die that way, well the ones that knew what was happening anyway. Ignorance would have been considerably better in this case. Pete
Try as you might you will never "fix" a human. There are no perfect humans. If anything, this tragedy may have a bizarre benefit. Any terrorist looking at breaking down the door know knows how difficult it is It wasn't worth the price but there you are. Someone sitting in Yemen now just started scratching his head. I said this many years ago. A terrorist attack like 9-11 cannot happen again. The reason-- people will no longer sit quietly in their seats. In fact UA flight 97 was the end of the concept. You would need to put 20 terrorists on a plane now to control the passengers. The risk of the plot being found out in advance is too great. We always fight the LAST war.
As someone on another message board pointed out, an airline CEO would NEVER stand up and say one of his pilots intentionally flew an airplane into the ground unless he was absolutely certain. Nothing could be worse, from the airline's point of view.
Are you sure there was a leg an hour before? Lufthansa has one an hour before, but the only GermanWings flight I could find was the evening before-- GermanWings 9528. Still would be interesting to know if was the same crew.
No it isn't. We are creatures of habit. What I described is the natural habit of what happens to anyone in a situation like this. If you go back to the Titannic, many people, even after the boat started listing, didn't think it was an emergency. Many of the early lifeboats were launched HALF FULL. The difference between one minute of breaking down a door in a panic and logically trying to figure out how to get inside over 8 minutes is completely different -- and will yield different results.
This exact plane that crashed flew to Barcelona from Dusseldorf, arriving about 1.5 hrs before this flight departed. It would make sense to me that this was the same crew sharing the duties of both flights. You can see the aircraft's flight history here: D-AIPX - Germanwings - Aircraft info and flight history - Flightradar24 I'm also curious how many times this pair had flown together so if anyone sees that mentioned, please pass it along. >8^) ER
The CEO of Lufthansa alluded yesterday evening at a serious depression in 2009, using the expression "burn-out"; this is now in most press reports and seems not an isolated event: Lufthansa knew about killer pilot?s depression | The Times Rgds
Agree, rational thought would have been the first course of action, ie. assuming something normal. It would have taken time to realise that they had a genuine situation on hand. Pete
If they want to keep these thoughts "on the down low" why do so many make such a spectacle of the act? Because they have something to say, usually FU. My anger is not directed at those with thoughts of hurting themselves, it is reserved for special asshats like this particular pilot. I agree they should seek help and I would not admonish anyone for having thoughts. In fact a close friend recently shared with me he had such thoughts. He's fine but you can't fix everybody. The individual in question here is simply a criminal, a murderer. It doesn't matter why anymore, does it?
