400 Superamerica #1517SA

Walter

You must have talked to Axel and Friedhelm.
I met them at Quail and told them everything.

Marcel Massini

 

Hey Marcel, you left us hanging--because we didn't hear what you told the displayers of the car. Answers like that are coy but don't advance the knowledge (which many model car people care about most) . Was the body indeed taken off Maserati 5000GT 103-008 and put on Agnelli's Ferrari or not? I compared pictures of the Ferrari and the 5000GT in the front 3/4 view on this website, Maserati at Pebble, has front turn signals (blister shaped, orange lens) and a one piece front bumper, can't tell if the Maserati 5000 displayed at Pebble has a sunroof, so much sun on the roof.

Another source says the Ferrari came that way and Agnelli sent it back for a two piece bumper and other changes.

http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/5000gt/5000gt-001a.jpg

The picture I have from Pebble Beach of the Ferrari shows a few details that are different between the two cars..

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Ferrari/59_Ferrari-400-Super-America-DV_10-Q_02.jpg

The version shown in recent years at Pebble has a externally attached "rub rail" in green, running from the tops of each wheelwell, and below that is brushed stainless steel. The "rub rail culminates in a metal spear with orange reflector behind it.

Yet I have a PF file photo of the Ferrari which is very good clarity, shows no such rubrail, or stainless cladding. In that picture, it also has a wrap around intake vent (or is it some sort of turn signal) wrapping from front to side of front fender right above the blade like bmper, and two piece front bumpers. Or were all those changes added by PF later in the cosmetic re-do?

I am surprised the "rub rail" didn't get points off at judging. I don't remember seeing those on other Ferraris of that vintage.

Everybody describes this as Agnelli's old car or Harrah's old car,wonder f I am a sexist pig for remembering it as Anita Ekberg's old car(I guess you had be there...)

I saw the car at Robert Butler's shop one where he said Harrah had hit a tree with it.

But that source on the net that lists Ferraris by SN says
Pete Sherman, Maitland, FL, USA was the owner when the nose as damaged in a road accident, then it went to
Gilbert K. Ranney, Santa Ana, CA 92705, USA, and was offered by Rainey for 11K in '76 . No offers so then donated in '82 to Harrah Automobile Foundation, Reno, NV, USA which may have sent it to Butler, hence my misconception of who pranged it.
Incredible nobody wanted it for 11K for 7 years!

 

I realize Fiat didn't own Ferrari at that point but was Agnelli thinking of recommending that Fiat buy Maserati? By having the same body on two different cars, was he trying to see which company, if given the same design, could build the best car? I think as far as driving down the road, the Ferrari won, as the Maserati engine was too much race car-derived, or did fuel injection tame it down so the two were comparable drivers?

Also confused about the "Persia" appellation used n the Ferrari when that car was never ordered or delivered to the shah of Persia, where the Maserati (AM-103-008,) is called that in various places which would make me think that the Maser design was started first and the "Persia" appellation used internally to tell people what the design goal was with the Ferrari.

Anyhow to go back to the rub rail--did any Ferrari of the Fifties or Sixties come with a rub rail? I think that's an American invention.

Also I examined the Ferrari closely at a Ferrari show on Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena and seems to me the stainless steel is attached very tightly and firmly to the steel and though I know s/s does not rust, isn't there a chance that rusting could start on the steel underneath the stainless steel if there's water trapped between> Was that a ridiculously expensive idea to sheathe the steel body in stainless? (It looks great though) I am just asking this because I like the early fifties GM show cars and am still trying to find out what materials they used (like did they ever sheathe fiberglass with stainless?)

 

I know the Agnelli 400 SA quite well. I did quite a bit of sorting of the car. The 2 strips along the side of the car are blue and green which were Agnelli's colors. The strips covered up the top edge of the stainless steel panels where it meets the body. The other 3 sides of the stainless steel were wrapped around the edges. When the car was being initially restored there was quite a bit of surface rust between the door skin and stainless panels. These stainless panels were installed after the initial showing at the Torino Auto Show amongst other changes.

 

At that time Gianni Agnelli wasn't the "King of Italy" indeed, he was just an extremely wealthy socialite playboy. He became "king" in the '70s...
As well reported, he never really worked till 1966. His frivolous life took place between the Cote d' Azur and St.Moritz or between NY and Rome.

However he received few but hard recommendations from his "tutor" Mr. Valletta that was also the almighty president of the Fiat group.

One of these "suggestions" was of not to be too flashy, for reasons of opportunity and respect for the hundreds of thousands of his employees.
This should be applied also to the cars with which appeared in public.

So, one of the results of that policy was to own two different cars that should seem just one, and with a look similar (for most of the people) to a customized coupe Fiat as it was also its previous 375 America ( # 0355AL)

Ciao

Andrea