The new consolidated 308 lowering & suspension upgrade consensus thread

Because they were working in an environment contstrained by the technological, financial, and legal realities of the late 1970's.

At this point we have the opportunity to fit technology to our cars that just wasn't available back in the day. Additionally, Ferrari built to suit the average owner on average roads. I would submit that there really is no such thing.

 

Because it's thirty year old technology that when it comes time to "rebuild" costs almost as much as a more modern upgrade.

I'm in the middle of an entire suspension refresh. I would love to just get the original Konis rebuilt an be done with it but IMO the cost isn't worth it. I also personally think the car looks 308 times better when the stance is lowered just the slightest bit with a tad more rake. Many of the cars on the original suspension appear to be motor boating and it just looks wrong to my eyes.

 

Guys I've been playing with almost every shock combo available and enjoying the journey.

I bought the triple adjustable Wilbers and thought they were way too hard, so after a few months I took em apart to analyze them and have learned so much about shocks. I ended up building a shock dyno so I could compare the damping curves of them to the QA1's and stock Konis.

What's nice about the Wilbers is that they are totally revalvable. I think I've learned enough now where I could put together a set of Bilsteins with a few custom parts that would work pretty sweet on the 308, but first I need to see the Wilbers redevelopment thru.

All in all though I gotta say for the money the QA1's work. I autocrossed with them for many years and was very competitive. I'm hoping to have my autocross car back on the road with the softer valved Wilbers and solid suspension bushings on the front (completely wore out the urethane bushings!) for an April 25 event ... and am planning on doing Laguna Seca with the Ferrari club in August with her.

Cheers all!

 

I submit too that taste has changed. The old school suspensions feel soft to modern taste. Likewise, body roll used to be considered useful feedback regarding cornering forces. Now nobody likes it.

The “GT” in our car’s names stands for “Gran Turismo”. A true GT car is intended for bombing down the Autostradale at 250 kph; not tight tracks. It also explains the steering rack that is as slow as a ship tiller. While it is questionable as to how much a “GT” the 308 really is, it gives insight into the design values (and marketing) of the era.

A firmer suspension does make a slow car feel faster. I am not adverse to stiffening mine up although I don’t feel compelled to do so.

.... If there was magnetorheological damper kit available for the 308, now that would be cool.

 

Here are a couple of data points that may have some value:

1) A set of QA1's with springs weighs in at 34 pounds. The stock Koni setup weighs 56 pounds. The replacement saves you 22 pounds in total. That's about 0.8% of the weight of the entire car. That kind of savings is not easy to find.

2) The spring rates I used were 350 front and 300 rear. I went with the Eibach spring.

 

The 'faster rack' has a different lock to lock steering ratio (ie: the rack & pinion gearing is such that it takes fewer turns of the wheel for a given change in direction).

To the best of my knowledge the faster rack is only supplied by Superformance.co.uk:
Steerimg Parts for Ferrari 308, 208, 288 GTO & F40 - Superformance

They used to supply complete rack assemblies with the faster gearing, now they only supply the parts to retrofit an existing rack:

Fast LHD Rack and Pinion only
Complete with rubber gaiters and track rod ends
Fast rack (2.5 turns lock to lock) that transforms your steering
30807010
£276.95 (about $410.69 as of today).


As for the inner A-arm bushings, the ES 13-3101G black bushings are readily available. Note: you need 16 bushings, 2/a-arm, 2 a-arms/wheel.

For years the best deal has been the B13.3101-G set of8 bushings without the outer metal shell (not needed, just re-use the 30 mm O.E. outer metal shell that is welded onto the control arm. ) from this site:
https://www.suspension.com/ferrari.htm
Current price is $130/8 bushings which works out to $16.25/bushing.
However I just noticed that they're currently available for a few pennies less from:
autoplicity
Energy Suspension 13-3101G Control Arm Bushing Set Black | Autoplicity

on sale at $15.75

Be sure to compare S&I costs which I didn't.

Note suspension.com says you have to burn the old bushings out, but we now know that the old bushing can just be pressed out as long as you are careful to support the A-arm so that you don't bend it. You may need to use a wire brush to get the last rubber remnants out, but it's a lot less mess than burning & doesn't require re-finishing the a-arm.

 

There is indeed.

For example the bonded rubber bushes contribute to springing and reduce body roll because they act as a rising-rate spring as they go into bind. If they are old and worn they wont do this. Replacing them will firm up everything and make a huge improvement. On the other hand replacing them with cheap solid bushes will lose this capability and a softer ride will result. They will wear out and become noisy and then everything will get loose.

A moderate lowering makes sense as it is very likely that the height was not set high for any technical reason but for legislation around minimum bumper height.

As someone already mentioned, the GTS chassis is so flexible that there are limits on any improvement you can make on these cars.

Anyone planning this type of project really should try driving a car with everything replaced with original parts and compare it to a car which has had cheap bushes and shocks fitted.

 

I recall reading this basic quote from Carroll Smith. He was talking about "tuning on race cars". He asked, before you change a March or McLaren stock part, you need to figure out how you are going to do it better than they did, (or make it better suited for YOUR service). The last parenthetical statement was mine, but I think it applies.
All automotive manufacturing is compromise: you can make a stronger, lighter part but it costs more money. You can make a larger engine with more horsepower, but it uses more gas and weighs more, you can lower the roof line, but you loose headroom - but it looks good and on and on - you get the idea.
Technology does improve and better than stock parts are available, BUT YOU have to DO the Engineering to make sure it really is going to be an improvement, or better suited for your purpose. You can give up some ride comfort to gain a more agile handling. You can pay more for better tires, more sticky, les squirm, more direct, but they ride a bit harder and wear out more quickly, (IMHO, this is one of the best bang for the buck upgrades)

With stock springs, my car bottomed out driving up my street.
The stock Koni's are adjustable, but only if you pull them off of the car, remove the springs, do the adjustment then reassemble and reinstall - totally unacceptable with today's technology, unless you are doing a concour thing, or saving the car for the next owner.

Part of the GT concept back in 77 was "a good ride". To do that they put 200 pound/ inch springs, which did wallow a bit compared to today's cars.

Everyone who has driven a non power assisted 308 know that they are absolute pigs to park in a tight lot - they are very high on effort to get the tires to turn, NOW, science says that if you decrease the leverage, (by installing a quicker ratio steering rack and pinion), you are going to increase the effort needed to turn the steering wheel, in direct proportion to the to the reduction in number of turns lock to lock.
I would want to try this quicker rack out in a parking lot to see if it was worth the added effort.

Plastic/rubber bushings?? This is a fairly easy choice: Street or mostly street driving - go rubber, it is more comfortable, lasts longer, is quieter; these are not small advantages. Now, if you are willing to trade those advantages, (compromise again) for a more direct linear feel and quicker handling, then go for it.

A note on springs, the front shocks and springs are more steeply inclined than the rear units and therefore operate at a lower mechanical advantage than the rear, which are nearly vertical. So, even though 55% of the cars weight rests on the rear, we need less spring rate on the rear than the front. The factory, IIRC had a 25 to 50 pound stronger springs on the front to get the car balanced.

As part of this balance, they had a 17 mmm anti-roll bar on the front and a 15 mm on the rear. The springs and anti roll bars gave the car a relatively "Neutral" balance, tending toward a safe understeer. So, if you pushed the car hard on a onramp of consistent surface, radius and slope, you would encounter understeer, push or a bit of plowing, (the driver is scared). Conversely, if you were boogying right along and lifted the throttle, the back end would ease out, oversteer, get loose, (the passenger got scared).
This relative neutral handling, this balance, "at the limit", is one of the most important criteria of a GT, or good handling car. It is critical on a race car.

Whatever you do to the cars suspension, you need to make sure that you maintain a good balance. Aside from tires, the spring rate and the diameter of the antiroll bars are the primary determinant.

A few guidelines:
Stiffer springs need more damping, (more resistive shocks/settings).
Adjustable anti-roll bars are a lot easier to balance the car's handling than changing the bar diameter and this why almost all race cars feature adjustable bars.
Using harder rubber/plastic bushings, or ultimately, monoball, (metal bushings), you can take some of the compliance, (slowness, imprecision) out of the suspension movement and make a quicker car, but at the cost of maintenance, harshness and complaints from the passenger seat, (which is not inconsiderable).
Spending more money, (another compromise), on better shocks is almost always a significant improvement.
Lowering the car has its costs, like grinding off the euro air dam, high centering over speed bumps and the inability to enter one's own driveway. Going further, we can encounter the tire hitting the front fender lip and bending the metal down. This is mostly a function of rim and tire width, chasis height, spring rate and antiroll bar diameter - ask me how I know
Do not go too low.
Having height adjustable shocks is probably not that important for a street car, but if you do go there, you will be able to get the car not only lowered, but you can get the corner weights balanced. Getting the car corner weighted will not yield perceptible advantages until you start to push the car on the back roads or compete with the car at DE events or autoxes.

So, if you stiffen up the springs about 50 % and increase the bar diameter, rim width, install better shocks and tires; rubber or plastic bushings isn't going to make a whole lot of difference and you will have a much better handling car.

For the record, I have QA-1s, 400/350 springs, plastic a arm bushings, 22mm F/R bars with heim jointed drop links, corner weighted, 7.5 & 9.5, (narrowed) 360 rims, dunlop direzzionales and a little brake improvement.
It took a lot of playing with the bars to get a good balance, so the car will balance easily and go like stink, while I smile like an idiot, sliding it around the bend and up over the hill, (thunderhill).

hth,
chris
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The above track ready 308 is what I always wanted to build and I am happy with it. If I had it to do again, I would probably have stepped back 50 pounds on the springs and done everything else pretty much the same, especially the brakes.

So as a point of comparison, I am fixing up my recent father's original 74 911. I will probably sell the 308 and keep the 911 and as I age I will probably not get to the track as much, so....

Bilstein shocks, slightly stiffer torsion bars, "sport" rated rubber bushings for the suspension and engine/trans mounts, the car came with stiffer antiroll bars and I added stiffer rubber mounts. The wheels remain stock forged aluminum and the tires Dunlop Direzzionales, lower it a bit, corner weight it and slide the mother through the turns.

chris
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Mine is a GTB but I'm running 400/350 and I actually don't find the ride any harsher than original, depending on the shock setting, but i do get less roll and dive and bottoming. I'm annoyed with myself for originally rebuilding the existing shocks instead of going straight to the QA system.

 

I can only report that everyone that has installed these loves them.

I debated to spend the extra $2,000 on my Ducati for the Ohlins and after my first time on a curvy road was glad I did. Everyone on the Duc forum was right, the Ohlins is smooth, they inspire confidence. Then with my C6 with Z51 suspension, knowing how GM cheaps out on the shocks, I bought Pfadt sport dampers; even on the settings that were similar to the damping of the stock shocks they were smooth, no more wheel hop.

I know modern shocks will improve the 308, I'm just looking forward to be able to compare modern shocks to rebuilt Konis.

 

"While you are in there" replace the original rubber brake lines with braided stainless steel lines. I used the HEL lines. The fitment was correct and the installation was relatively simple. The old lines were pretty crusty. A mysterious tendency to pull to the right under braking cleared up immediately.

 

Yes poly bushes are cheaper than bonded rubber. If Ferrari wanted to save cost they would have used them.
The Shocks pictured earlier in this thread are the standard "entry-level" clicky-knob design which are produced by a variety of manufacturers.
The original Konis can be considered to be non-adjustable but they would have been valved for bump and rebound after extensive testing. The type which have one adjustment knob are non-adjustable for bumb/rebound ratio, so how do you know if it is correct? An upgrade would be a shock which has a separate bump and rebound adjustment.

 

Whatever you decide to do i.e. shocks and bushings the real important factor is to get in there and clean off 30 years of gunk and grime and check for cracks, problems, etc.

Have no doubt it is not a difficult task but it is INSANELY time consuming, project creep WILL set in. Basically you will end up making the entire wheel well and suspension brand new (probably better than new). Once you get the spindles looking fresh, then you want to do the hubs, then the brakes, then the steering rack, etc., etc. It really is a disease but it's cheaper than therapy!

I have been doing mine for what seems like an eternity. It is fun for me and I do it when my time and finances allow. It wouldn't be possible if I had to pay someone an hourly rate. Heck, I won't dare tally the hours it took me just to blast and wire all my hardware so I could have it plated.

All the hours of degreasing and scrubbing are worth it to me because I'll have the peace of mind knowing that the critical components off my car are perfect. More important to me, I will know every inch of my car and how it ticks. That's very confidence inspiring. Why else would we spend hundreds of hours making things immaculate that no one will see? I'm always amazed when I see people do projects but never take the time to simply clean and freshen things up. It's easy to go that extra step and it makes a world of difference.

Hopefully grease and grime will be the worse of your problems. But you never know if there are any cracks or critical flaws in your suspension that could cause you to ball up your pride and joy or worse.

1. Rear Hub grime
2. Hardware all ready for plating
3. Before and after
4. Crack in rear hub brake mount
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It is so nice to see a thread which is about driving performance and tuning of vehicle dynamamics. The 308 is a great car which deserves the best. (... the thread is tipping me away again from rebuilding the Konis. Gaaa!)

A good analysis. Thank you.

A few months ago, there was an article in a magazine (Grassroots? Hemmings?) written by a bushing manufacturer. One of the main points the writer emphasized was that poly bushing technology has substantially improved over the years. He claimed that densities, elasticity etc can be custom tuned for the application and argued that poly bushings were always now substantially better than rubber.

I wonder if this is true.

 

Better in what way, for what purpose?

 

Good question.