how to value a car where the owner did the major themself

You guys with your panties in a wad are completely missing the point.

Our work, our credibility, our integrity can be verified accurately and instantly, good or bad.



Yours cannot. Its that simple.

The rest of the bull**** is just feeding egos so by all means have at it.

 

+1 Bingo

If a prospective car was owner maintained and the owner had the stack of receipts that tends to accumulate with these cars and it showed quality and improved parts like Hill throwout bearings and Capristo exhaust etc. it would be a compelling case the car is well cared for and quite possibly a better car than the one that went to the dealer for the same defective design OEM bearing to be installed as an example.

 

Absolutely there are some good wrenches

Unfortunately there are way too many folks with a false sense of security that can read and write about with the best it but when it gets down to actually doing can't do it as the two are totally different.

I've worked with the absolute best forward thinking engineers the automotive industry has to offer along with the old school ones that if it were up to them the world is still flat. Always they have been trumped by the best techs that are brought in at random from across the country to scrutinize the new designs.


There are some great techs out there and most have gone to the private sector.

So, No I don't trust your repair skills I will check every car myself before purchase, sorry

 

regarding the rolex parallel, the service is not of any importance, only with very rare pieces that are often faked, such as double red seadwellers. But then the service is more or less proof of authenticity, and the service that has been performed is not valued more.
On newer pieces the original documents are part of the price, again as a sort of proof that the watch has not been stolen.

So with a rolex, as well as with any Patek, Audemars Breguet or the like, service itself is not valued more done by an AD.
With a 348/355 more often you will see independants in the service history, as the cars get older and dealers not always are the best choice then (as with Rolex).

An owner doing all the work himself will likely save a lot on maintenance. But for resale peace of mind he better have the last service carried out with a stamp in the book, and all previous non-stamped services are more or less forgiven...

 

I debated this (with myself) and choose to let the buyer decide on who or how the next major would be carried out. I priced the car appropriately as well.

 

Yep. Once you've been around these cars for a decent length of time you WILL have a reputation. Good or bad, anyone with access to google can research you in seconds. Bob in his shed with a pile of hill engineering receipts makes a prospective buyer nervous. It doesn't matter how Many threads he has on fchat...

 

Bob or bubba?

Bubba seems to ruin everything out there.

I don't blame anyone wanting it to be done right but really A lot of us are a long way away from any Independents, or Dealers. I am at least two hrs from any FNA dealer.

The older the car is the more of a chance a DIYer has done something on it. Just price the car so you have that extra money to take it to a dealer.

Of course After getting that PPI everyone talks about the buyer will know everything that's close to failing right? Or what it may need right. Those PPIs catch everything.


How about buy it with it in your mind that no matter when the last service was done that you will take it to a dealer and have it done all over then you know its done and is right.


Plenty of owners here will buy a car even with fresh service and do it again, at least go over it and change the belts and bearings.

 

And how representative of the entire Ferrari buying market do you think your statement here is? Most of my clients either don't know or don't care about Ferrari forums, let alone doing their own servicing of reading through a fourty page thread made by a guy he's considering buying a car from to guage the quality of his work.

 

What? I'm dumbfounded by this statement. You're saying a Honda mechanic doesn't rely on reputation and quality like a ferrari tech does and might inflate work needed, but that Ferrari tech would never do such a thing?

You my friend have been brainwashed and drank the koolaid.

 

To the OP's question:
Find 5 otherwise identical cars.
1 Unserviced should be the cheap baseline.
2 Serviced by an owner will range between that one and
3 One serviced by an independent which will be below
4 One serviced only by The Dealer which will be below
5 One serviced only by one of the VERY FEW known ultra-professional shops such as Brian's or Dave's.
correct?

 

I guess it depends on the person and the documentation. I am a C-130 Flight Engineer, full systems Quality Assurance Representative (QA), and A&P (Airframes & Powerplants) mechanic in the Navy. I've changed an engine on a C-130 in a combat zone with one other person (granted a REALLY good tool set)... lol! Engines are engines, suck, squeeze, bang, blow... As long as the mechanic has the proper maintenance manuals and they meticulously document their work with pictures and part receipts, I would trust a DIY'r as much as a dealer. It's really in the documentation and knowledge of the individual. I f you can ask specific questions about the work, and they know the answers, then I say it's legit.

 

Oh Eddie, you are so wrong. Don't you know this is the center of the universe and anyone important in the Ferrari world is a regular here?

 

Ah yes, sorry Brian!

 

There are no proper maintenance manuals.
They are and always have been very sub par and full of inaccurate, incomplete information. Depending on one as your source of information will lead to some very serious problems.

 

That is the way I would value it if I were buying another one. I might be biased as Dave has serviced my F355 for the last 9 years.

 

We are talikng about cars , right ? Not the space shuttle . What magic does the expert dealer or ultra expert do that a qualified mechanic can not do in regards to a major service ? Imho , the ultra expert just hands over an inflated bill to the owner so they feel they got something special that an " ordinary " indy mechanic could not do . The same indy mechanic that works on more complicated cars every day of the week . Try doing a timing chain job on , for example , an audi 4.2 s4 , then tell that indy guy his work is substandard when it comes to a relativy simple ferrari. V8. It is just a myth that the preciuos ferrari needs only to be touched by ultra expert hands , as has been well discussed hee before. As far as value at resale , it should mean nothing , a well taken care of car , is a well taken care of car either way .this all just sounds like " mine is better or more highly valued than yours because ....... "
Heres the audi v8 apart , lol. Enough said, i guess if i service my 348 , since i 'm not a ferrari " expert " my car will be labeled inferior
Btw , the audi dealer told this customer " we dont do chains , we suggest a replacement engine " real " experts " lol lol lol . Car now runs perfect , customer satified with our indy unqualified work .
1994 ferrari 348 spider , third owner purchased may 2013 w/ 27804 miles

 

Excellent synopsis Bruce.

But, no two cars are identical and the circumstances surrounding the car trump all this stuff. We have all seen cars with 20K plus service receipts from legitimate entities where those dollars were fully discounted in the purchase price. Just because a car has an extensive and expensive, well done service history doesn't mean that said service dollars are tacked onto the value in the final analysis. I speak from experience on this on a car I vetted that had 23K of service stuff done at Algar in a 2 year period. None of those dollars were reflected in the asking price at all.

I think the receipts from a qualified pro, dealer or otherwise, trump DIY as Bruce said. I do not think that those dollars necessarily translate into higher sale prices in the end. If its a 99, gated Berlinetta, that has been well cared for, the high valued service receipts are a plus but the car will sell well regardless.

 

Seen this scenario many times before ... "a DIY Major".... And my opinion is the same now, as it was then.

Ans.

The value ? = Zero

IOW = Value it,, as if the major hadn't been done at all. Because likely you WILL have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN.

In fact ... sometimes....value it LESS then if the major hadn't been done ... DIY'ers do more harm then good (often times) ... and they're simply figments of their own imagination. LOL

 

You just don't like the brotherhood

 

That's funny. No one cared when I sold my other 355 and I did the service in house. It added tremendous value. I guess they werent representstives from this forum. Good thing! Regardless of what ferrarichat says. The car can have $50k in receipts and it could be a turdd.

 

Oh boy. I think the first really dumb comment has been fired that will start the war.

 

This is how I buy my cars except I'm the one sorting it. I don't buy the last service. It is an expired asset. Service history has very little value to me. I laugh when people insist on records but know so little about how a car works they have no skills to interpret those records.

 

Haha gobble I couldn't resist. Its like "how are my compression numbers" all over again.

BTW, nice work on the major. Congrats on finishing.

 

Is that the guy that makes the famous barbecue in Burbank every Saturday?

 

Technically nothing, the question is how skilled and experienced is this individual?

I've seen people who have built engines their entire lives occasionally perplexed by a degree wheel/valve events. Sure many can physically do the work but how many understand what they are doing?

I guess my viewpoint is this would have to be looked at on a case by case basis. To be a bit hypocritical I would prefer to buy a car serviced by a well reputed shop but from here on out I plan to do all of the services on the car myself.