McLaren 540 announced

Why owuld anyone take aporche over this?Because a porche gt3Rs may be a much better drivers car, is also NA.
The 991 turbo may just be a better car.

I do agree the Mcaren is more "exotic", you also cant get a Gt3 Rs because porche is to precious to make enough. For a streteecar the Mclaren is a great choice, if you do some trackign with your street car, will the mclaren be as good as the NA Rs.?

 

rs will sound better and rev higher but mac will be better in most other aspects.
and as you say, mac will be readily available whereas rs will be unobtainable

 

$185K is the base price, before any options.

Dreaming if you think you'll be able to get a 12C Spider for $120K any time soon..

 

So when does Mac lose the turbos and goes further down market to compete with the regular 991S/GTS?

 

Yes 185k before options, but from what thye told me the only otions are wheels and stereoes, it comes pretty loaded.

I think I will be proven right on the 12c its s surprceded model, was not that sucessful, and even the 650 replacement comes out next year. Sequentialy it puts it at somehting between a 360 and 430.

 

And if they loose some weight and add a stick it would be great, not gonna happen.

 

I don't think they will go that far because
production constraints and that market
wants the rear seats for kids or grocery - IMO

 

Do 500 miles in any sports/super car you feel connected to, then tell me you would not prefer the active suspension of a 12C/650 on the track or on the open road. The whole "soul" comments are just contrived by alleged journalists and non owners that lack objectivity.

As for tunes, it has taken years to break the 12C encryption, I sort of doubt you will see 700 HP in a 570 for many years, whereas I can send AMS a check for 5K and get 717HP on pump gas.

MB

 

So a 12C Spider today trades at a $60-70K premium to a 430 Spider, and in a year or two you expect it to trade for less? If it trades at $120K, an F430 will be $50K...

A 430 isn't even on the same planet as a 12C, in any respect. A 12C will also be very competitive in performance for quite a while being that it was so far ahead in the first place, especially on the highway. The difference in trap between 12C/430 is probably as much or more than 430/348. That gap is enormous.

 

Well I ordered and would prefer my 991 GT3 over the 540. Of course I have a 12 C so my position is unusual. To me the GT3RS is really a different segment. It is much more track focused and I can almost guarantee very street on-friendly.

Frankly, that does the upside down downfall of the 12 C. It is simply a brilliant streetcar but I have driven for over 11,000 miles personally. Unfortunately, some people think that is a negative. As I have said before, if you want a "Special occasion" car, then you may want it to be noisy and rough riding. To me, the 12 C makes every drive a special occasion

 

Don't get too bent out of shape. As best I can tell, every flippant remark on 12C depreciation by people who will never buy one, anyway.

 

Highway, trap speed, seriously. Maybe people buy new cars on those specs. Many people also buy a new car to have the latest.

Us drivign enthusiasts who buy used have different criteria, and many of those are subjective. By defintition the 12c will not be the latest or greatest, the 650 488 already are and the 570 is coming. Nor will a 12c carry the price of an equivalent used Fcar, it depreciated faster when new and is a less subjective joy to drive. Also the 12c is effectively being superceded 2 gens later by a car that looks better and costs less. Can you explain why the faster better more refined and comfortable murci is worth less than a diablo.

 

Yep the 12c is a brilliant street car, better than a 458 at that task. But it lacks the subjective of the 458 which is a big reason why many of these cars are bought, that affetced new car sales and will affect resale.

As to the GT3rs, I mention it in comparison to the 570 because they will be in the same price range, and some will prefer what one offers over the other and visa versa.

12c coupes are already what 140? and they will drpreciate further. This to me makes them one fantastic buy. A 570 as a road car, its performance delta to a 12c will be imesuarable except on paper, and it looks better. I dont think for a road car the performance premium of a12c will mean its worth similar money used to a new 570. If that is the case, how much less is a used 12c worth compraed to a new 570.

Yes the 12c suspesion may be more comfortable, and it may be slightly faster, but Vs the 570 which woudl be new, more luxurirous inside and so fast that the differences are close as damit the 12c is going to be an older used car.

2 years from now what wilkl a used 570 be worth, assuming adequate supply, less than new, and a 12c will be less than that.

Ferrari does not make a new car that costs less than an old car in the same category, imo Mclren is doing just that with the 570, making a more appealing lookign car, they clearly need the sales.

Now some may argue that the 570 is nto int he same category as the 12c, and that the 650 is. IMO witht he 570 the 650 is dead too.

 

I do maybe 200 mile days in my BBI, its enough. Of course if I want to go longer ditances where are much better and more appropriate machines for that. We dont buy connected supercars for distance. Frankly I found the 12c suspension to feel a bit floaty and disconnected, granetd I have at most 100miles in one.

To me the fail of the 12c is it does not know whether it wants to be a gt car or hard core machine, it falls between the two stools. IMo Mcalren misread the market, they went for fuel economy in a segement that does not care, and comfort and tech at the expense of feel in a segement where peopel do care.

 

compare 540/570 to p turbo, not gt cars. cant even get an rs unless connected at porsche dealer. mac dealer will do handstands to sell you a car. much rather mac to 991tt (unless need cab which mac doesnt have yet)

12c cannot be used daily due to difficulty getting in and out with wide sills. mac supposedly fixed that with 570/540. that will make a huge difference. not sure why they kept wild butterfly doors though. should be normal opening on a dd

 

I suspect McLaren marketing at work; essentially they are testing different price points and seeing which one sticks. Seems they are having trouble in the $300K plus range with the 12C and 650S (competing with Italians, especially Ferrari) so they are moving down market. Makes sense so long as they can turn a profit at the $150K price point with higher volume - at that price it looks like good value...

 

McLaren has stated that their plan was to launch these cars from the get go. They aren't just feeling their way around the market. If you look at their product plans, it is rather varied for a company that only builds 2 seat, mid engined cars.

 

Find me a nice 12C for $140K. Last I looked the lowest ask was about $160K and transaction prices are probably nearer $150K lowest, for a higher mileage car or demo or stories car. Rest of your comments are subjective or speculative, to each their own so no real debate to be had.

But my point is that I bet you will not buy ANY of these cars in the next 18 months or so. Not GT3RS, not 570, 540, 12C, 650S, 458, 488, Huracan. I welcome being proven wrong. But unless one is an owner or serious buyer it's easy to opine and critique.

 

Speak for yourself - I DD mine regularly except for airports and movie theaters (don't like it parked where folks know you are gone and unlikely to return soon). I agree that it's harder to get in and out of than conventional doors, but any reasonably fit person can get in and out just fine.

 

I dd my elise and as long as roof is off its not a big deal. but no way w top on. how is mac vs lotus?

 

True I am not buying one, mainly because after trying what was available 2 years ago from new mp12 to 458, I went ahead and built the car below. Its what I wanted in a fast non daily, and badge means zero to me. Like you keith reasle is irrelvant because I own it. More than just signing a check it was an effort a fun project and lacked instant gratificationof a new car not least because the build has been 18 months. It was worth the effoort. I think given to cost and the cars tied in comparison I can opine because if someone made somehtign that appealed would have done that instead.

Possibly with the hindsight of time for the same $$$ I could have gotten a current Gt3Rs, assuming I would prostrate myself sufficiently to get a dealer to sell me one. So if I could geta Gt3Rs now maybe thta woudl have been my choice, although even then,do love what I have.

Frankly purely for the street my m3 feels like more than enough, although a Hellcat challeger seems to appeal too in a ridicuus sort of way. Course I have to drive on really crappy roads, snow ice etc so my choices for daily street cars are different, to yours by necessity. My non daily cars are purely for entertainment so I dont have to dance with one pair of shoes at two weddings.

Still of all the cars at the new cars at the NY car show the 570s seemed the most appealing and is appealing to me in a way the 650's is not. I could see getting a 570 whereas a mp12 would need to be 120k to motivate me. None of which takes away from the P1 which to me is by far the most appealign of the hypercars, and last weekend I saw a 918 Huraya Laferrari and P1 parked back to back for perfect contrast, but I digress. Love Mclaren and what thye are doing and wish them all the sucss int he world.
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Mac is way way easier than a lotus. Any reasoanbly limber person will find a mac easy. Lotus you have to fold into and roll out of. Cant say I even noticed the sill on the mac.

 

for 12c? only looked at one once but seemed like seat was below the sill just like lotus. good to know

 

Yep 12c, no big deal getting in and out, much easier than a lotus. You want hard try the Gt40, its like slipping into a glove feet first.

570s now easier to gte into and out of, and methinks a prettier car.

Spidey i think that when they hit 120k the mp12 is your next car, fater than a Gtr, sporty like a lotus and comfy like a caddy.

 

You could be right. I looked at a very nice white convt with black roof, wheels and trim on ebay. Asking $200k. Not in market yet but in 1-2 yrs have something like that or nsx, 570/540, r8, or used 458 to consider. My heart says 458 for the looks, revs, and sound though