Pre Oiling The Baldwin Filter

Interesting...There are marine engines with remote spin-on fuel filters mounted 7-8 feet from the engine with the associated plumbing - a total of 15 feet of hose between the filter and the engine. The filters are usually mounted right side up so they are easy to fill/install.

These are EXPENSIVE engines that make it look like they give away Ferrari engines/parts. Despite the fact that the oil has to run through 15 feet of plumbing to build up pressure/fill the filter, NONE of the manufacturers suggest that the filters should be pre-oiled. In fact, they suggest you DO NOT pre oil because when you pour oil into the filter, the initial "burst" of oil going to the engine is not filtered because it didn't go THROUGH the filter. Admittedly we expect oil in a can/bottle to be totally free of any particles but their concern is for getting some grit from an outside source into the filter as you do this pre-oiling. One example cited was a piece of the plastic from the oil bottle cap that dropped into the filter and then plugged an oil passage.

There is no scientific evidence anywhere that indicates that pre-oiling a auto engine oil filter actually does anything useful for the engine but, like "required" 3000 mile oil changes and "batteries will discharge if left on a concrete floor," it makes a good "mechanical myth."

 

Yup, it happened to me at 9.5 !

 

What did I say?

Teach you everything I know and you still don't know nuthin.

 

There you go


Injecting reality into a myth love fest again.

 

Slow learner what can I say.

 

When first started, some of the oil that goes "through" the filter actually goes around the filter medium. The pressure drop across the medium could burst or collapse the medium so there is a bypass valve built in to the canister. When cold a whole bunch of oil likely goes through this bypass anyway and isn't filtered.

 

Thank you for that.... I have tried to tell people this for years.

Joel

 

"The pressure drop across the medium could burst or collapse the medium "

That only happens with Fram oil filters!

 

Precisely.

Oil will stay on the critical parts for a lonnnnnnnng time after shut down.

In my younger days working part-time in a race-prep shop, we sometimes used to "prime" cars that had been sitting for while in order to get everything well-oiled before start up (by no-spark/no-fuel cranking). But, that was only done on the cars with turbos --- as the turbos have oil chambers that drain after long periods of sitting. We never did it on non-turbo engines --- it is wholly unnecessary.

 

That said..... this is the ONLY factory recommendation I have ever seen for "pre-filling" an oil filter -- this is from Lotus and applies to both the 4-cylinder & 8-cylinder Esprit. However, it should be noted that these ARE turbo-charged cars . It is easy to fill the filter with oil before installing on these because it mounts gasket side up.... that said.... in the 20 or so oil filter changes I have done on Esprits, I have NEVER bothered to pre-fill the filter -- and never had any problems either. So, whatever that means ?
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

@Brian,

There's no bypass in the UFI 308 filter, nor in the Fram 2804-1. I am puzzled by this since there's no bypass on the filter mount like a '60's GM product would have.

So AFAIK all the oil goes through the filter all the time, all that gets past the pressure relief at the pump anyway. I guess Ferrari counted on very strong filters and frequent filter changes.

Systems with a bypass valve, either in the engine / filter mount or the filter itself, it would be interesting to know when that valve is open, or simply know the pressure across the filter.

Thanks,

GF

 

It appears that for the Fram at least you are correct. I don't know about the UFI. Fram lists this filter as "full flow" and pictures of one cut open show that it does not have the spring-loaded plunger that other Fram filters have. And I am puzzled as well. The older V12 Ferraris that use this filter appear to have a bypass built into the filter mounting assembly as you say about '60's GM cars. I don't find this on the 308 motor. Did Ferrari drop the bypass and still recommend the same filter? Is the 2804-1 listed in Ferrari literature as an acceptable filter on the 308?

 

check this one out.

It happened when the car was fully warmed up.
I subsequently pulled the oil pump pressure relief to see if it was sticking it was ok.

Installed a Baldwin and the pressure came right back up.

Problem solved.
chirs
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hey Chris, is that video on Youtube you or someone with exactly the same PH2804-1 problem?

 

Fram USA no longer lists oil filters for a Ferrari application - and they changed the construction of their 2804-1 filter a couple of years ago, renumbered it to PH28041 (not "-1").

In February, I asked a Fram representative about their 308 filter and the change to renumber it and remove the standpipe specified by Ferrari, and their answer was simply "We have outsourced this filter to Sogefi in europe and are no longer catalogging it for this application in the states as we sell less than 50 per year. We are in business to make money and very slow running part numbers get delisted all the time".

In other words - the current Fram filters are not what they used to be, and shouldn't be used on a Ferrari.

 

My video was deleted by youtoobed.

Corporate $ at work to hide the truth.

 

Taking the dash out didn't take the filter off the market, it's still shown as a cross reference to the Ferrari part number on the Fram site. The 2815 is also shown as a cross reference.

(I didn't capture the screen shot but that's my recollection)

The 2815 I've often seen on the V12's, according the site it has a pressure relief.

The early V12's used one full-flow and one B50 type bypass filter, but how the bypass was plumbed I have no idea.

Unless one of us throws in $30 - 40 bucks and cuts open a new 28041 and 2815, whether these have a standpipe or not is unclear at least to me.

Or: Someone in the Berkeley area could likely score some used ones from Pattrick Otis ...

Thanks,

GF

 

28041 had stand pipes last I looked long after the change in number. Don't know if they still do since I gave up on them many years ago. The brand has failure problems not related to the stand pipe though. I know of a few V12 Ferrari motors that have suffered that failure.

Many in the vintage Ferrari world seem stuck on their use for cosmetic reasons and I personally consider it dumb for a filter that has become known to cause engine failures.

 

How often do you change you oil by years, not miles?

Some say annually, some just by mileage

 

I don't know what you're talking about but I've been doing this for over 20 years and never had problem, not once.

 

If this helps you sleep better at night then by all means you should do it.

 

With the inverted oil filters like on the 308, I fill the oil filter, let it sit for 2 or 3 days just to be sure all the air is out of the filter. I then rotate the car upside down on a rotisory and screw on the filter. Never a mess, never a problem. I thought everybody did this. Why do you think oil changes at the dealer are so expensive? Sheesh...

 

It makes me laugh at all the unnecessary extremes owners go to on the one hand and then complain how much it costs when paying for service and dumb things are avoided in the name of efficiency.

 

Brian,

Once again you are right! How is your new shop doing? Thanks for still listening in. Very few experts here now!

Rob

 

Fine, thanks for asking.


And fewer and fewer.

Someone said the other day it was a do it youselfer site in a not very nice way. It is getting very close to that.