Top 10 Mondial Facts and Myths

10. If you are of a 'husky' stature you will find the Mondial to be a perfect fit compared to the 2 seater Fcars.

 

Paul,

I can understand your efforts in trying to restaure the “Mondial’s” reputation, but to my eye, you should stop going too far, because in some of your assertions, this is just plainly ridiculous, and I think that this is so outrageous than it is actually non-believable, so as to make a disservice to the car you are trying to defend.

Example:” 7) its handling was praised as better to the 308/328”

The late José Rosinski, a very respected French test-driver (who, among other feats, raced in the Le Mans 24h in the sixties) wrote in the French magazine “Sport-Auto”, December 1985, for the presentation of the new 3,2 engine:

“Climbing out of the “Mondial” to take the wheel of the 328 is akin to climbing out of a truck to take the steering wheel of a go-kart: the 328 is so much lighter, so much sharper and precise, so much more agile”

Please reconsider…I don’t thing by going to such extremes you are actually defending the “Mondial”…quite the reverse, in fact: it is so extreme as looking frankly suspicious.

Rgds

 

Mondial t Valeo's were the forerunner for the current day f1 paddle shift systems.

 

I'm sure the smaller, lighter 3X8 series is probably more nimble but the technology in the Mondial is more advanced, plus the HP is substantially higher.
I would be happy to challenge a 308 or 328 with my "T" to see which car is a truck or not.
Any takers?

DavidJ

 

Methinks?

Not everyone is cut out to be a Mondial Owner!

Sid

 

+1

 

Uh Oh challenge!

Me thinks Paul will be soon responding with quite a few documented driving reviews


However my unofficial ASS tells me my Mondi handles better than a 328 if you know how to drive it!

BTW 3.2 Mondi 3000lbs vs 328 2800 lbs

same engine and drive train

aint alot of difference there my friend!

 

To allow any sensible conclusion, a road test must be thorough, this to prove something; more so if it is done as a comparison between two different cars: then it must be done on the same track or road, in conditions as equal as possible as far as weather, humidity, temperature, etc…go, and ideally by the same driver – or by drivers exchanging cars.

Saying “driving my Mondial T, I will do rings around any 328” proves nothing: perhaps you would, but this would probably be thanks to – at least in part – your driving abilities, not to the car; or...perhaps you are just boasting, and you will end up chastised, and then doing disservice to your car: who knows?
Anyway, it won’t be a thorough test, and won’t prove anything as far the two cars are concerned.

Doing this on the same track, or road, with another driver; then exchanging cars would at least be slightly more useful. Having this being done by two professional drivers, each one exchanging car after a first serie of tests, with the other, then doing the same tests with the other car, would probably be even better.

The question here is whether it is true that, at the time of the sales of the cars new on the market, some writers were saying that the roadholding of the Mondial was better than the one of the 328.
Sorry, but up to this day, I did not find one single example among the French, German and Italian press of the day. They were all praising the roadholding of the "Mondial" as a grand tourer, but all also say that due to its large wheelbase, it was unable to compete with the 328 whenever the road was turning a bit. "Sport-Auto" n°317, June 1988, even said that "the wheelbase of the Mondial is "out of measure" ("démesuré") "but this is not a sports car by any means, it is a grand tourer".

Furthermore, saying “some people say that it was better” is useless; if someone really wants to prove a point, it is much better to state “who wrote this, in what issue of which paper”; otherwise, it does not prove anything; on the contrary, it is a disservice to the car you pretend to defend: looks like a kid trying to prove desperately something a any cost - and not succeeding.

Rgds

Rgds

 

french Sport Auto, december 1986:
"the superiority of the 328 does not comes mainly from the weight difference, which, at 1370 against 1485, is only of 115 kilos (equates to about 240lbs, euro versions), but from a combination of factors such as shorter wheelbase, sharper steering, instant responsivness: the "Mondial" is a Grand Tourer, the 328 is a true Sports Car".

Rgds

 

I live in mountains and wear out tires sometimes in 6,000 miles and know secret and safe places to really test these things. I have a bit of track training and lots of autocross. My estimation is this is the single most driver friendly and docile vehicle I have ever owned. Or, for that matter, driven.

It simply does not bite.

 

Sports car or Grand Tourer both wheel bases are almost exclussively driven, if driven at all, on public roads. And even then almost never at the limit. I am the only guy I know who actually drives my car almost every day 1) full throttle many many times every time I drive; 2) practices full G braking almost every time I drive; 3) Practice full G corning in my secret places every time I can conspire to include them on my daily beer run.

And I can tell you one thing. The very last thing I want in my life is a Widow Maker like the 911 has been, off and on, for the last seven decades. Back in my day the manufacturer even put 100 pounds of lead in the front bumper, or so I have heard. I believe half of all early turbo Porches were wrecked. Often on decreasing radius on ramps.

My last experince on autocross track with Caymen and 911 they understeered like pigs, but upon startled panic lift throttle ducked nicely into the corner. The first time this happened to me in the first high speed autocross corner I said, quite loudly to the instructor: "What the >>>>ck!" He made some sort of passing reference to Mac Trucks or something.

 

My Ferrari is my friendly, playful, daring but very very safe mistress. I do not need a Femme Fatale in either my automotive or romantic life.

 

Greetings Nerofer,

I appreciate your reply. Let me preface my response first with a few things:

1. I am no way disparaging the 308/328 handling. In fact, I'm not qualified to do that because I've never driven those cars. I think all Ferrari are awesome. You can call me a Ferrari "Fanboy" (all models) - yes yes...even the bread waggon

2. I too was surprised about the Mondial's handling prowess when gathering articles for archives. I automatically assumed when comparing the Mondial 8/QV to the 308 and the 3.2 to the 328 that the reviews would say the 308/328's handling would come in much beter. I was very surprised myself that these decades old articles praised the handling of the Mondial over the 308/328.

3. I don't challenge your quote from José Rosinski; because I believe Jose's analysis, again..since I'm just 'armchair' racing - I truly believe it's a fool's errand to argue with any definitiveness. (unless I've personally done an A-B comparison myself)

I personally believe that for very skilled drivers, the 328 is faster and 'better' handling then the Mondial 3.2. The question I have to ask, however, is which is better for me? I am not a skilled professional driver, for me - a car that is more forgiving, stable, and ready to reward a 'regular' driver like me is far more valuable then a 'better' handling 328 at the limit.

So with that, here is the quotes from reviewers and sources that led me to conclude that the Mondial was often considered a better handler. I respect you may disagree, but I will present to you the actual articles...I think nobody can deny that many professional reviewers found the Mondial a 'better' handler then the 308/328...this is simple fact....now, I respect the possibility these reviewers are objectively wrong in their assessment, but I base my claim that it is a myth that the Mondial is a 'poor' handler and that many reviewers said what I claimed - is proven below.

***
Mondial 8/QV vs 308.

"The long wheelbase gives the Mondial a decisive advantage of the 308 in straight-ahead stability; the insignificant overhangs mean that it turns with the poise of a dancer but only when you turn the wheel."

"Although the front suspension is largely from the GTB, there have been several areas of refinement, including the inclusion of some anti-dive, and modifications to the king-pin inclination, to improve its stability. Those meaty tyres give the Mondial the firmly damped but level and quiet low-speed ride of the 308, and add a wide-tracked 'gumball grip' quality. The balance of this chassis is sensational."

Source: Car July 1981
http://alexachua.com/car_july_1981.pdf

"But it must be icing on the cake for the Mondial owner to know that he has bought not just the most rational Ferrari design, but it certainly the best handling one."

Source: Motorsport 1981
http://alexachua.com/motorsport_1981.pdf

"Maximum lateral acceleration was 0.812g, essentially identical to that of our last 308's...we'd estimate it's performance to be in the same range as the 308's 60.6 (slalom)

Source: Road and Track 1981
http://alexachua.com/rt_1981.pdf

"When it comes to getting around corners, the Mondial inspires confidence. The extra foot in wheelbase makes the car feel a good deal more stable than the shorter 308 in practically any operating situation."

Source: MotorTrend 1981
http://alexachua.com/1981_mt.pdf

"...nor does the Mondial make you keep your guard up. It doesn't kick back through the steering like the 308s. "

Source: Car and Driver 1981
http://alexachua.com/1981_cd.pdf

*****

Mondial 3.2 vs 328

"..the most forgiving of all mid-engined cars. The long wheelbase helps here, taming the response away from the snap breakaway to some mid-engined machines (308 GTB included) and giving a drive friendly balance..."

Source: Motor 1988
http://alexachua.com/motor_1988.pdf

"Like the 328 models, the Mondial is a mid-engined car, sharing virtually all the of the two-seaters' engine, driveline, and suspension components..(the longer wheelbase) seems to make it more predictable in fast transitions.."

Source: Automobile 1987
http://alexachua.com/1987_auto.pdf

I have some more articles about the t's handling, which as you know was improved from the the 8,qv, 3.2.

In conclusion, please do not take my post as an attempt to say Ferrari X is better then Ferrari Y. That is not the intention, as I said in my opening - I love the 308/328...I sincerely don't care if they handle better or worse...my point is that the Mondial is often said to be a poor performer...I think the articles I've listed above at the very least show that is far from true and very much in the 'myth' category.

Thanks

 

Paul

I am four square with two Mondial traits. First is "The most forgiving of all mid-engined cars." This is no small matter. I have been unable to provoke anything even close to scary. Second it has headroom. So much headroom it is the only car I have ever owned in which I can wear my cowboy hat comfortably. That might actually be a small matter for some drivers.

And of course Mondials have very large parcel shelves cleaverly designed to look like rear passenger seats.

 

I hear ya brother!! Until I have more time at the track (which coincidently aligns with my fact #6*) Snap oversteer is not my friend!

I learned that the hard way in my old AP1 S2000

FACT #6
*6) Gives you full access to full access Ferrari owner perks, such as Track Events, owners only tours of the museum, clubs and associations...

Since I'm a Ferrari owner, I already got to participate in Ferrari Challenge (Sonama Raceway's Track day) and drive the car on the race course.

Next Month, I am participating in my local Ferrari club "Advanced Driving Course"


By owning Maranello's red haired step child, get to hang with the "big boys" haha...

I don't know of any other car manufacturer that for $250 - gave me breakfast, lunch, dinner in a luxury suite....gives me access to an open bar (after driving of course), and then allows me to drive on the track!??!

FORZA FERRARI
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

"This above all - to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as night follows day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

One of the facts or myth (I myself have not decided yet) is other Ferrari owners put down Mondial/308GT4/400/348 owners...but that's not the case here right Todd308TR?



Yeah - I do find sometimes find myself in the unenviable position defending the Mondial....but I am a man that passionately defends who and what they love!

 

Love to see that Cowboy hat....

 

I would provide a photograph with me and the hat but I do not photograph well. Some say that is because I am not photogenic. I say they are correct. And worse. But there is always the simple fact I do not belong to the social classes that generally own Ferraris. While it is true I have enough MONEY to own a six digit car and here in the US I might even comfortably socialize with such people in some venues. Frankly. Its not me.

And by way of exculpation I invoke the following. Back in the 1980's I was boating pals with a lady who was a very successful associate in IBM. We were happy to boat about the Chesapeake in total platonic equanimity. Then she got hired by, I believe, WorldCom or QualCom or some such. And she started boating with billionaires and invited me to join them. The billionaires would be fine with me. They would not look down on me.

But I would look up to them. My greatest fear is they would offer me some prospect to work for them. Or accompany them on various adventures. Such a thing would have entirely disrupted my own life plan. There is no way I could have acquitted myself in my own eyes. And the sad truth is I was rather being unfair to them. But unavoidable so.

Accordingly I declined the sailing opportunities. My lady friend was dissapointed in me but that is how the chips played.

 

nerofer

as you may know already us Mondis are a big happy smiley bunch and are very thick skinned

HOWEVER we do each others back!


my friend we all LOVE our Ferraris!

but I must state that it was you that made the following quote from your late driver:

“Climbing out of the “Mondial” to take the wheel of the 328 is akin to climbing out of a truck to take the steering wheel of a go-kart: the 328 is so much lighter, so much sharper and precise, so much more agile”

You admitted that the weight difference is not that much,, SOOOO lets be truce and maybe think that is your source the one that exaggerated???

trust me Im from the South and there is no damn comparison to a mond and a truck!

to quote a famous movie "thats all a got to say about that"

Happy Trails till we meet again!

Signed
your ugly stepsister "RED"
les bon temps rouler
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Don,

Don't get me wrong: I like the "Mondial", and positively LOVE the "Cabriolet"; I just wish the majority of Cabriolets were not sent to you in the States, because the pool of cars to choose from here is so small...so yes, it means that even with a '89 328 GTB and a '89 328 GTS in the garage, I am toying from time to time with the idea of adding a "Mondial 3,2 Cabriolet" to the stable. However, as said above, the pool of cars to choose from is small, and I would like to have a blue one (certainly not red; preferably Blu Sera over Beige).
What I am trying to say is that comparing the "Mondial" to her 3x8 "period equivalent" is doing disservice to the car, because they were not intended for the same purpose; until the 3,2, the reception of the car by the press here was unanimously "lukewarm", to say the least.
Trying to make her what it is not will only be seen as "revisionism", and ultimately would do her more harm than good.
Hope I am clear: again, I have nothing against the car; and even less so against her owners!
Rgds

 

Oh, and to Paul:

Thanks for post #38; I shall answer to it in more detail, and constructive spirit, as soon as I am back on a real computer and not with that tablet which has a devilish program that is correcting everything I write in english with french orthograph, that I have to rewrite. I can't deactivate it for the sake of me and except for short posts it is driving me crazy...
Rgds

 

Here here.

 

nerofer

We are clear with each other my brother!
I understand that you were trying to say that the ride is more "refined"

you do have a stable of fine "prancing horses" yourself !

Hope that you find the 3.2 Mondial of your choice!

Best mondi model .....but Im biased of course!

c'est la vie

 

Android, Apple, or Microsoft tablet? I have all three and have settled on Nexus 7. A lot of such issues you mention have to do with keyboard selection and setup. I use A.I Type keyboard Plus and with much experimentation have restled most of the intrusions to the ground!

 

Paul!

"Snap oversteer is not my friend..." Believe it or not but most Lincoln Mark VII enthusiasts claim the Lincoln a better handler then their Fox Bodied Mustang stable mates. Why? The Mustangs have stiff rear suspension bushings which can suddenly reach the end of their compliance and kick you in the ass.

Thats why I never changed out my Mark VII rear bushings. Sure, I fully boxed in the rear suspension pieces, added sub-frame connectors, big stabilizer bars and dropped a 7.5 psi possitive displacement supercharger on top of the 5.0. But rear roll stiffness NEVER locked up. I ran down a C5 Vette over Blood Mountain and had the fun of letting him get ahead then close upon him in the curves. He slowed up to let me pass but I would not do it. I was afraid he would try to keep up with me and get into trouble. And I have NEVER been passed going up Blood Mountain. [Its a wide four lane with heavily banked curves and plenty of run-off room. The curves are generally 60 mph and usually less.]

The last time I did a serious run at it was in my 2007 MAXX. It is neutral handling and I passed everything on the road. But the smell of hot burning front rubber and a soft steering wheel let me know I could do no more then that.