Can we stop the gratuitous 355 hysteria??? Please??? Isn't this getting stupid?

I for one... am hoping that the car will fetch something close to the ask price!

It definitely would help the value on my Red/Tan Fiorano with a gated manual that I'm looking to put up for sale next year!!!

 

Currently the Ferrari market here in the UK is strong.

The economy is giving people a lot of confidence and more and more people have money to spare so they're buying Ferrari's (and other classic cars), which is driving the prices up.

We're now in a situation where, for certain models, the price differential between the UK and Europe is so large that we have loads of LHD cars being offered for sale in the UK because there's more profit to made here than in Europe.

For some classic Ferrari models (think 308 GTS), until quite recently people were buying cars in the USA and importing them to sell in the UK because the profits made it very worth while.

Now prices in the USA are starting to take off it's no longer a feasible option.

3 years ago though there wasn't any confidence in the financial markets, we were still recovering from the previous recession and the prices of all Ferrari's was quite low (comparatively speaking). 308 GTB/GTS's were selling for @ £35,000, 328 GTB/GTS' were trading @ £28,000, 348's were @ £20,000 and 355's were going for @ £30,000 (all prices based on UK RHD versions. LHD versions were even cheaper), and all of these cars had been stuck at these prices for over 5 years.

Today those RHD prices are more like:

308 GTB/GTS: £70,000 ~ £140,000
328 GTB/GTS: £70,000 ~ £130,000
348: £38,000 ~ £60,000 (if you can find a RHD for sale!)
355: £75,000 ~ £100,000 (Again, RHD versions are far outnumbered by LHD's)

I bought My 348 TS last year for £33,000, 12 months later, at this moment in time I believe it is worth @ £45,000, but with only one other RHD 348 TS for sale in the UK at the moment (at a price of £59,995!), were I to want to sell it right now then I could probably ask for £48,000 (and if you wanted the über rare folding soft top as well then you'd have to add £2K to that price!).

TBH, the way the current used Ferrari market is, I'd say you'd have to be an idiot to buy a Ferrari right now!

Yes the prices may well climb a bit more yet, but it's simply not sustainable!

Sooner or later, the financial markets will drop off/take a hit, and the values of all of these Ferrari's will drop back. I doubt they'll completely crash, but they will fall back to more realistic prices.

If you wait another 1 ~2 years, you'll be able to buy the same cars for a lot less money.

If you're thinking of selling, now's the time to do it!



TBH, this is a bit of a strange thread! - Owners complaining that the value of their car is rising.

Do you also complain that the value of your house is higher now than when you bought it?

Whilst I can understand that there is a certain amount of annoyance that some people become somewhat obsessed about the current values of Ferrari's (and are then instantly denounced as not being a true Ferrari enthusiast!), it's a fact of life that you're not going to change by demanding an end to discussing it.

If you don't like these sort of threads - Stop reading them! It really is that simple.

And don't worry too much - Chances are that in a couple of years, your 355 currently being valued @ $170,000 will return to being a far more owner pleasing $50,000, so that'll be 120,000 less worries for you!

(Unfortunately though, your house is probably still likely to go up in value! - Damn that housing market! )

 

There is about zero chance of that happening. Once the value goes up that much they never drop like a stone unless you have a huge huge financial melt down. The people paying the high prices are not going to list them for sale at a 100k loss. Just won't happen. You'll get little peaks and Dips but that's it.
And after driving a new turbo California today, I don't think values are going anywhere but up on a proper NA Ferrari

 

Guess all 4 of us didn't give a cr@p or care enough . At least that was the case with me

 

I agree with everything you have written.

In particular how weird it is the some owners of these cars are determined to talk them down.
It seems to be peculiar to this website and some US owners. But the why of it eludes me.

I bought my car in the UK four years ago for £44k. At that time it was very close to the top of the market. Sure there were a couple of ultra low mileage examples which were around £50k, but you could also buy a 355 for well under £30k.

There is no doubt that these cars are on the way up, and even if there is a significant "correction" in the future I think it's unlikely we'll see those prices again.

I doubt I'll ever sell my car, no matter how high they go (if I'm ever lucky enough to be able to buy another Ferrari it will be in addition to the 355), so I don't really care if they're worth £20k or £200k.

But why would any current owner wish that they were worth "less"?!
Strange.

 

+1 mind blowing phenomenon quite unique to 355 owners on this forum..

 

I think there are strong signs that this is a market top. Why? When is the last time, if ever, you saw 4 Enzo's, 4 F40's and 2 F50's for sale on Cars.com? Looks a lot like smart money is cashing out. Sounds like a top to me.

 

Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob. Your newbie-ness to the Ferrari world is showing.

Ask guys about 1989. Someone in Japan bought a 250 GTO for $15M or something that sold it 4 years later for $3m. Daytonas went from $1m to $80k overnight. Where was the financial crisis then? There wasn't one. It was market bubble.

I am not saying that this is 1999 but let's not think that these prices are definitively here to stay and fall into the trap of thinking this in the new normal.

On the flip side, if the prices do go up a lot more, I don't know why anyone would change how they drive their cars. As I've said many times, the car doesn't drive any differently if it's worth x, 2x, 5x, etc. All it knows is that it's a Ferrari and it's made to be awesome.

 

And if that person in Japan had held onto the GTO instead of selling it like a little girl as soon as things went a bit south what would it be worth now?
And the Daytonas?

Frankly I don't think those cars have any relevance to 355s, though.

One of the good things about "garden variety" Ferraris is that the fluctuations are far less severe than the "collectibles".

And as such I agree with Rob. The prices may well fall a bit from their current high, but they will not plummet.
I mean, do you really think a nice 355 could be $20k at some point in the future?

The main question is, why would any current owner wish it were so?

Bizarre.

 

The problem with Ferraris is there is nothing smart about owning them. There is someone on this forum selling his F40. When asked why he said he has a better F40 that he's going to keep. Not all the people selling are abandoning ownership. Just like when your rock solid companies stock price get exuberantly high you sell your cream off the top.

 

Where did I say that a 355 would be worth $20k? My point is that they could go back to the prices they were last year (and there still lots of folks buying nice 355's for $50k or so TODAY - on this very forum, to boot).

And I don't know how you say that Daytonas in 1989 have no relevance to 355 prices today. In 1989, the last Daytonas were 16 years old. Today, the last 355s are - wait for it - 16 years old. In 1989, Daytonas were "garden variety" Ferraris, to use your words. And let's not be hypocritical here as I have seen your own posts where you have called the 355 a "future collectible," which would follow the tracks of the Daytona, i.e. from "garden variety" to "collectible."

I have no horse in this race. I have no interest in selling any of my current Ferraris and have turned down numerous offers at very high (a couple I would even call absurd) offers. I own the cars because I love them, not what they're worth.

 

and that, my friend, is where the conversation should begin and end.

 

Please post where I have previously said the 355 will be a "future collectible".
I don't recall saying that, but it is possible.
For the record, I do think the 355 (and some other NA V8 Ferraris) are almost certain to be collectible in the future, but it may be well past my pension time.

I'm not sure that I agree that the V12 Ferraris have ever been considered "garden variety".
I thought that was left for the "lesser" V8s.

What you certainly did do was reprimand someone for their views and give an ultra rare Japanese example as your justification. Yet when it comes to 355s you only consider the U.S. market and ignore the rest of the world (not uncommon on this website).

However, if you were to look at the 355 market outside the U.S. you would have to agree that at least in some countries it has gone ballistic over the last three to four years.

 

You are reinforcing my point my point, not contradicting it. I can not predict the future but let's see where things are in a year or two. Hysteria comes at tops.

 

I'd actually like to see the bubble pop so I can add to my collection. Prices have increased so quickly certain models have become out of my reach for the time being. As for the 355...mine is a "dead guy car" for now. If you see it for sale please write something nice about me 😜

 

You know what, Steve? That's a fair point. You live in Oz and you have a completely different marketplace and not only do you have a completely different supply but RHD is a different dynamic as well. Furthermore, I know that you have completely different labor rates there and so the market for maintenance heavy cars are way different, especially when you consider the taxes and prices you have to pay for new cars.

I pretty much only look at prices in the US and mainland Europe.

 

Haha! Fair play to you.

But, you know what?

We have a very weird market here where only original "Australian delivered" cars are assigned any real value. Any car which was originally delivered outside Oz is significantly marked down. As a result we actually have a much more insular and illogical market than you do in the U.S.

Hence, what happens here is completely irrelevant on a global scale.

And, 355 prices here have not risen at all in the last three years. If anything, they are slightly lower due to currency fluctuations and a glut of under-appreciated imports.
But I ignore our dopey market because as far as I'm concerned Ferraris are global cars.

If I were to ever sell my car (which I won't) I'd simply send it back to the UK.

 

Maybe the F40 guys were talking to the Enzo guys and now they want to try an Enzo? Maybe the Enzo guys are yearning for an F50 or LaFerrari? People like to try new things and swapping a Ferarri, even a $1M one, is way cheaper than swapping a wife.

 

This is a strange thread?

I think your post is a "strange post." And for many reasons. You seem to be on both sides of the issue.

I never "complained" about the value of my car going up.

Do you condone behavior that leads to irrationally exuberant markets? Yes or no? It's pretty much established fact that stock market bubbles like the 2000 bubble, the 2008 bubble, and current bubbles-in-making hurt a great many people individually and us all as a whole. I speak as a conservative economic theorist and not as a command economist.

Please allow me to clarify the essence of the thread so that it might appear less strange:
1) Artificial markets and bubbles are good for the smart few in the short term, bad for everyone else in the short term, and bad for everyone altogether in the long term.
2) It is wise to wave the caution flag when fundamentals don't support price levels
3) It is wise to wave the caution flag when a certain geometric and accelerated rise in prices is occurring, or appears to be occurring, before our eyes.

If anyone disagrees with those 3 points, then there is no purpose in debating further because those 3 points represent a fundamental line of thought, and a person can be only one one side or the other side. Naturally, everyone is entitled to his opinion about which side is the proper side. But no sense in arguing about it, just like there's no sense in capitalists arguing with Marxists. What is enjoyable to discuss in a spirited debate is whether or not these things are actually happening, why they are happening, etc. Some believe what we see is natural, some believe it is artificial, and some don't see anything happening. That's what we are here to discuss!

My contention is that folks who whipped up the housing market in the United States from 1999-2006 absolutely destroyed our country's economy. If our little F-car world becomes a microcosm of that historical occurrence, I guarantee you there will be undue suffering. This is our hobby, and if we do not protect it, who will? We should be careful about our own greed and also about allowing people and dealers to "invent" ridiculous pricing and to establish unsustainable markets.

Like <zc911> said earlier - a very smart comment - when prices go through the roof on the cars, shop labor rates will go up, insurance costs will go up, wash and detail pricing will go up, etc. etc. This is not what we want. It will hurt us all in the long run, and when the car values crash, those prices will probably remain the same.

Easy does it. The cars will go up on their own without owners whipping the market into a form that is suitable to their specific circumstances, which naturally exist in self-interest.

 

I just added up how much I would have to sell my 95 F355 Berlinetta to just break even.
I bought the car for $55k in 2005.
In 10 years I've paid
- $4k sales tax
- $13k personal property tax
- $10k insurance
- $35k maintenance
That means I would have to sell my car at zero profit for $117k.
The getting while the getting was good is over.
Time to pay for these cars if you want them.
I don't see the hysteria.

PS: Drive your Ferrari(s). Your paying too much a year not too.
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The time has come, has it? I suppose since you've said so?

I imagine when you bought your 355 ten years ago, you were thinking you'd one day sell it for a profit or a break-even?

Sounds to me like you ought to be cashing out and taking advantage of this market. If you find someone to pay $117K, I wonder if you will let us know.

As John said earlier, the "smart money" guys are selling now. If they thought the appreciation cycle were infinite, why would they sell now?

 

make one, Seems color changes are not as bad as I thought they might be as seen here.

Find a Yellow one or a red one and Paint it white, don't color change anything else not enough of them in other colors.

I can't believe I bought a Red 355 but I only grabbed it because its a GTS.

 

Spot on. My ears always tend to perk up when someone says or believes that there is a zero chance of anything happening. Black swan anyone? Let's look at Blackberry stock during the "crackberry" days - you will be amazed at how quickly sentiment falls and you are left holding the back on stuff that people believe never goes down.

 

Blah blah blah

You guys sound like a bunch of bickering old ladies.

Go drive your cars and get off the Internet.

 

Now that .....
Was funny