New 456M GT for ME!! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

New 456M GT for ME!!

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Martin Meade, Apr 26, 2013.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Congrats martin! 456 6spd in TDF is awesome. I like the look of 456's with 18" 550 wheels. I think they really compliment the lines and you will have more space for front 2 piece rotors and big brakes. Watch out for aftermarket wheels many of which are not hub specific and use hub inserts so that the same wheel blank can be used for many cars with just a different bolt pattern.
    21k miles maybe what your car needs first is a nice long drive. Garage queens can really suffer. If you are going to tear it down nothing would be lost if you seafoam it and take a long drive. Freeing up moving parts sometimes is like magic. These cars have a high capacity oil tank and there is a range of what works. check carefully for overfill a common smoking problem.
    It is hard to believe a car with such low miles and guide or seal problems. A 456 is not a 355. One other thing that makes for funky is poor injector spray patterns. Age or mileage it is just easy to send injectors out to clean during your major service. Scuderia Rampante's gold kit works magic too. The 456 seemed to have many electrical niggles that bug you and all that seem to go away with good solid connections. Even sitting check your rubber bushings. These things seem to disintegrate but maybe I'm a picky racer who demands precise handling. I'm totally rebuilding my 550 as we speak lathe cutting delrin bushings for a-arms, calling Girodisc Monday for caliper seal kits, and sending the shocks out for a re-valve. I think rebuilding the suspension on an old car is one of the most important things to make an old car feel like new.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Oh I forgot clutch...maybe the car has been sitting that the throw out bearing is really binding and fouled on its shaft and the pressure plate fingers are all sticky too. Clutch dust and time and moisture make for fouling. Once I let a mondial sit so long the rivets on the disc rusted to the flywheel! That too was cured by spirited driving.
     
  3. tajaro

    tajaro Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2009
    685
    Gulfport Florida
    Full Name:
    Erik V
    Brilliant post! "When it smells like a warm Ferrari... Give them what they need..."

    Post of the Month for me- thanks!
     
  4. omd78

    omd78 F1 World Champ

    Dec 26, 2005
    13,137
    Breda, Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Martin
    Congratulations Martin, love the 456!

    Gr. Martin
     
  5. abilliet

    abilliet Formula Junior

    Dec 5, 2006
    398
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Antony Billiet
    Hi do you have any pictures of the seats --front and back
     
  6. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    George, from what you say it sounds like you have too much oil in the engine.
    If you have the right amount and you wait for the engine to warm up, you should be able to get a clear reading on the dipstick.
    Only when you have a bit more oil that what is recommended you get the oil splashing at the top of the reservoir.
     
  7. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 15, 2012
    33,723
    Texas/Colorado
    Full Name:
    George Pepper
    No, I don't. The dipstick is wet with oil from the top whenever I check it as directed. The dealership has no such trouble. I just can't figure it out. In any case, such nonsense to check the oil is not acceptable. My BMW bikes have a glass on the side of the motors so you can just look at the motor and see the oil level. You don't even have to touch the bike. That's how it should be. There should be a reservoir or something. Having to do this/do that just to check the oil level is ridiculous. As in, "worthy of ridicule."

    I just watch the oil pressure and don't worry about it anymore. The car doesn't use any oil anyway.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  8. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
    Full Name:
    Martin Meade
    Well, with the unseasonably good weather we've been having here, I haven't done much to it but put miles on :) We pulled the rear rotors and figured out what was wrong with the parking brake. Cable popped out of the passenger side backing plate so wasn't pulling on anything. Parking brake shoes are almost dead. Got it all put back together and working but will pull it apart again and have the shoes re-lined. $53 at brake and clutch supply in Seattle. Unless someone has a cheaper option. They are likely off a BMW or Mercedes or something but it's a lot harder to cross reference parking brake shoes than it is brake pads. Clutch is still hard but it's very smooth. Morning smoke is still there but it's not too bad. Will get to that leak down next week. Tranny definately shifts easier/smoother after a few miles to warm up.

    What the heck is that fighter jet whining noise for the first minute or two at start up?? Sounds like a pump or something.

    Tires... these things are less than amazing. 400 treadwear Michelin Sport A/S. You can't really roll on it in first. It takes it's time getting to 5000rpm but when it's there it lights the tires. Obviously this is where the magic starts. If you have the ASR on it nose dives until you pull the next gear. When I get new wheels I'll pick something that sticks :)

    I get a squeak when I'm turning left, maybe a wheel bearing? Can't tell if it's the front or the rear wheel but it's there. I'll have to mount the go pro on it and see which end it's coming from.

    Still get a smile everytime I start it. It's adding to my quality of life every time I drive it! Kids love it, my wife smiles and laughs when she drives it. Best money I've spent in a while. Thought I might get some stink eye from folks around town for appearing pretentious (this is Bellingham after all), but I get constant rubber necking and thumbs up. Should be going down to Redmond some Saturday morning soon, maybe for the Bugatti run on the 25th? I'll keep you posted.

    @fatbillybob I did notice when under the rear working on the parking brake that one of the rear shocks is leaking quite a bit and the dash has the suspension warning light on. I'll take it over to Nick's Forza and plug it in to his diagnostic and check it out. Who rebuilds these shocks? As far as calipers go, if I have to do anything there, I know where to get seals and such, I own Girodisc :) I'll post some install pics when we put the 2-piece rotors on next week.

    Cheers All, and thanks for the kind words.

    Martin
     
  9. tajaro

    tajaro Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2009
    685
    Gulfport Florida
    Full Name:
    Erik V
    The air pump on the 456M at start is horrendously loud and whining . should stop after a few minutes. My tech said that is pretty normal.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    I know where to get seals too. I just bought a set from you :)

    Shocks rebuilding if bilstein they are in san diego and rebuild the 550 ones all the time. Rob at deltavee can do it too was former ferrari challenge guy, and races so knows his stuff. You can also contact Performance shock inc. in sonoma, Ca.. PSI does the typical penske, moton, ast etc. for the racers. My motons are there right now. I'm not sure if they will or can do the 456's. Being a suspension guy now would be the time to make custom changes. I'm not sure if bilstein will revalve other than factory but I know PSI and DeltaVee will.

    The whine!!! It could be another job for gopro. WAG's are the typical fan belt tensioner, power steering pump, A/c compressor or a/c clutch. Belt tension I use the wd40 trick to see if it is a tension problem or a bearing in something. If the whine is like what you have heard in the past it is probably one of those related to the fanbelt. The airpump has a different atypical whine.
     
  11. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    beautiful car and color. Congrats.
     
  12. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
    Full Name:
    Martin Meade
    #37 Martin Meade, May 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. abilliet

    abilliet Formula Junior

    Dec 5, 2006
    398
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Antony Billiet
    Thanks look great ! Back seats look ok ? Not too small aesthetically for daytona seats ? I have same color combination and was thinking of putting in daytona inserts .
     
  14. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,834
    Burradoo... Actually
    Full Name:
    Graeme
    #39 au-yt, May 3, 2015
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
    Welcome to the 456M faternity, great colour combination and love the Daytona inserts.

    I am surprised Taz has chipped in about the oil usage issue and how to measure it.

    Oil expands when hot so thats when it needs to be measured. The oil in the tank finds it way back to the engine through the pumps when shut down. so when the engine is running is the best time.

    Finnally and not the god news, welcome to the 456M bad valve guide club.
    These engines dont use much oil if any especially when they are to pass emission standards.
    There is a service letter about the guides which if you search covers 355s and 456Ms

    Graeme
     
  15. Jürgen Geisler

    Jürgen Geisler Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2015
    945
    Good old Europe
    Full Name:
    Jürgen
    Congrats for the really nice looking 456 (love the exterior/interior combination). There are so many helpful people in this chat, if there is something wrong with your oil consumption, you're in the best of hands. Unfortunatly I can't help you in this case..... My 550 doesn't show any smoke when starting and my Ferrari technical expiriences are limited...

    Hope, you'll find the reason for the oil consumption, imho for a car with low milage this issue should be checked carefully.....


    Kindest,

    Jürgen
     
  16. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 1, 2007
    1,278
    USA
    Full Name:
    Moe D
    Gorgeous car- All the key options- total winner now and down the road in time

    Congrats!!


    My 456 and 612 each use about a quart every one thousand miles-

    And yes you have to measure while the engine runs on the 456, pouring slowly as outlined
     
  17. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
    Full Name:
    Martin Meade
    Thanks Moe. It's been a long affair getting this thing going again and dialed in. I'm winning the battle but it is a Ferrari after all, something else needs attention as soon as you finish the last thing up :) I pulled the heads and had them rebuilt, put in a couple of Dave Helms' hoses, all new seals and gaskets, new crinkle coat on the valve covers, 575 motor mounts, belts, pulleys etc. It runs very well now although I'll have the dealer do the valve timing in a couple years when it's time for new belts. What a pain that is. Now it's things like rear shocks are starting to leak, drivers window has a 4mm gap at the rear edge, sticky buttons, shock adjuster blah blah blah. I did rebuild the entire door lock mechanism, both sides, and now I'm happy to report the key fob works flawlessly! That lube DOES turn to glue after 10 years. Unreal.

    On a side note, I downloaded an app on my phone called frequency meter pro. I think it was $3. I set the belt tensions with it. You just have to wait until the shop is quiet so it can have a good chance hearing you thump the belt. I checked a tuning fork against it and checked it against a real meter and it's spot on. Never say I didn't contribute something!

    Next is wheels and tires. Think I'm going to get some 18" in something to spruce things up a bit. Too much tuck in the rear and too much wheel well gap all around. I'll lower the springs just a little and get the offsets right. Should change the look of the car in a good way.

    M
     
  18. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    I see you're in the PNW. Where and how much was the crinkle-finish valve cover job done, if I may ask? Mine's flaking in places. Also, was it all done at once with the other work?

    By the way, for wheel and tire options, I recommend you look at formuladynamics.com. They've got some pretty good deals. I like their slotted rotors and dustless/noiseless brake pads, too.
     
  19. JM35

    JM35 Karting

    Jun 22, 2014
    75
    Texas
    456 MGT ,Daily drive , mostly highway (70-80 MPH) ,last year i put 8000 Miles on it and i just added 1 Quart ....
     
  20. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    That's great! These cars should be driven. I've put around 30,000 miles in the past eight years.
     
  21. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
    Full Name:
    Martin Meade
    #46 Martin Meade, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had the valve covers done at Mt Baker Powder Coating in Bellingham. I think they were $250 IIRC. It's pretty labor intense, lots of masking after the blasting. I think they came out great and I did do it at the same time as the other work. It's a bit of work to get to them. I'd wait to do it at your next belt change.

    I know Jeff at Formula Dynamics well. We've had conversations about his wheels and I'm basically trying to decide about 18 vs 19 and offsets. I think I'm leaning 18 at this point. I have seen some pics of 19" wheels on 456's and I like it but I'm worried about cabin noise and ride quality suffering. I'm thinking silver or gray. I toyed with bright silver and then machined on the face followed by clear coat but think it might be too bling. As far as brake rotors, I've got that covered. I own Girodisc :)

    Pic is of our 2-piece front rotors. I'm running our S/S pads which have a lot more initial bite and temp range but are dusty. Need some better wheels to show things off. Of course then I'll end up making some over the top BBK and I'm trying to avoid that!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    #47 2000 456M, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
    thanks for the valve cover info. I didn't notice a dramatic increase in road noise or harshness when I went from the stock 17" wheels to 19" OZ Superleggera IIIs and Bridgestone Pole Position S-O2s. The steering was definitely sharper.
     
  23. Jürgen Geisler

    Jürgen Geisler Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2015
    945
    Good old Europe
    Full Name:
    Jürgen
    Hi Martin, very nice project. Still wondering, that a (according to european standards) very low milage car needs already such big efforts....

    In generally, aftermarket wheels means here a decrease in value of the whole car, so l would go for at least official wheels ...... just my five cents.....

    As 550/575's and 456's are considered already as future classics, originality will become an important issue.... Couldn't imagine a Daytona or 275 GTB with aftermarket wheels (but finally, you have to decide...).

    Saluti,

    Jürgen
     
  24. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    There are a lot of 17" wheels available fairly cheaply on ebay.

    Ferrari 456 17 inch Used Wheels with Michelin Tires 456M GT GTA 355 550 575 | eBay

    I don't see that situation changing any time soon. My car won't be old enough to be in a judged concours class until I'm well into my 90s.
     
  25. Jürgen Geisler

    Jürgen Geisler Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2015
    945
    Good old Europe
    Full Name:
    Jürgen
    #50 Jürgen Geisler, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
    So, go for it, finally, you should be happy with the car. My recommendence was just to stay with original Ferrari 18 inches 550/575 wheels, despite the fact, that Novitec 19' are looking really nice...


    Saluti,

    Jürgen
     

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