My 348 rear ended today in Colorado.

I havent read this entire thread so I dont know i the car was totaled but that hit doesnt look that hard. I would buy it ...previous salvage or not IF price is right.

 

He said 42k was lowest he would go.

 

it certainly could have gone through the auction/insurance sale process without ending up with a branded/salvage/rebuildable title. The dealer cannot deny the accident but it's completely possible the title hasn't been tagged.

 

The rear wheel on the drivers side was pushed forwards until it was just about touching the front edge of the wheel arch so the engine cradle/frame had shifted a fair bit.

To be fair, when it comes to insurance companies it doesn't take too much damage on a Ferrari to make it a write-off due to cost of parts and repairs.

Like it or not, insurance companies rely on new parts pricing/availability because otherwise it would take forever to try to assess whether a car is a write-off or not as they wait to see if all of the parts can be found.

Plenty of others on here would also buy it previous salvage or not if the price was right....and the seller was a bit more honest about the cars history.

The seller appears to be trying to deny any knowledge of the car ever being in an accident or being written off by an insurance company (to the point of refusing an offer to have the pictures of the car sent to him!), because they know it will taint the cars resale value and put people off buying it.

By hiding the fact that the car has ever been in an accident, the seller is showing themselves to be totally untrustworthy! (If they're prepared to hide the fact that the car is an accident damaged/repaired car then what else do they hide from customers?).

As a buyer, you want to know that your prospective purchase doesn't have any hidden secrets, and that if any repairs have been carried out, that they have been carried out correctly and safely.

(How would you feel if you bought this car without knowing it's true history, for the price of an undamaged/repaired car, and then in the future you came to sell the car only to find that it was damaged repaired in the past and it's value was far less than you paid for it? As it stands right now, that's exactly what's about to happen to some poor buyer!)

If the seller isn't up front about the fact that the car has been accident repaired, how do you know it's been repaired properly and not just bodged back together in their backyard?

Had the seller been more upfront and honest about this car then they would get far more respect and far less suspicion about their business practices!

 

The Ferrari world isn't a very big one.

 

It's still big enough!

There are plenty of Ferrari owners who buy a car first and join FerrariChat later (and plenty more who never join FerrariChat at all!).

There is still a good chance of someone buying this car thinking it has never been in an accident only to find out the truth later on and paying the price!

 

Would you guys mind as much if the seller disclosed accident history ?

Because the supply of 348 seem look the price may not be unreasonable .

 

Yep none of my friends do the internet thing at all I am the lone jack ass

 

I think when you see a Ferrari on a car lot surrounded by a 78 Monte Carlo, various Hyundias, Corollas and other cars that are mostly priced in the 4 figure range, you'd best take a good, hard look at the car.

 

First off, if the seller disclosed the accident history straight away then you know he's being honest with you, which should give you a bit of confidence in how he does business.

It would also help you avoid wasting time and money going to see the car if you are put off by the thought of an accident repaired car (Some people have no problem with owning accident repaired cars [so long as they're repaired correctly], whilst others wouldn't touch them with a barge pole).

Added to that, the value of an accident repaired car is more often than not, a lot less than a car that has never been in an accident, so knowing it has been repaired lets you assess it's true value slightly better.

If the seller was open and honest about the accident history, you would pay a lot more attention to the areas of repair and you would be able to check out who repaired it, exactly what repairs were made and why they were needed.

In this case, the seller is denying any knowledge of the car being repaired (and sounds as though they're almost trying to deny the car has ever even been in an accident necessitating any repairs, even when offered the evidence to prove it), which raises alarm bells immediately!

As I'm reading it, it appears to Me that the seller is hoping to find a naive buyer who won't carry out the due diligence on the car, and will instead be starstruck by the fact that they're looking at a real Ferrari, that on the face of it, appears to be in superb condition.

Should he find one and they later discover it's hidden past, the seller will probably fall back on the old: "It's for the buyer to check the car out properly and fully to make sure that they are satisfied with it's condition and history!"

As it stands, based on the information now supplied to the seller, they are being dishonest about the car if they don't disclose the information about the accident damage to buyers, and could face a lawsuit later on for deliberately hiding the fact that the car is accident repaired, based on the possible disparity in value between an accident damaged car and an original, undamaged car.

It could easily be the case that this car has been repaired properly and perfectly, and that there is no problem with the car now. Sadly, the same cannot be said about the sellers integrity!

How can the true value of the car be assessed by prospective buyers if they are not given all the facts about the car?

The seller is trying to fool the public into thinking that this car has never been damaged/repaired and so is worth top-dollar! That is just dishonest!

This is similar to a seller selling a car where they know the odometer has rolled over past 99,999 and is now showing 25,000 mile on the clock but they're selling it advertised as "Only 25,000 miles on the clock!", claiming that "As far as I know, the mileage is correct".

Technically it's not a lie so long as they don't say the cars actual mileage is 25,000 miles.
25,000 miles are showing on the clock - that is a true statement, and the (undisclosed) total mileage is correct (the original 99,999 miles + the 25,000 miles now showing). The fact that the buyer assumes the statement means that it's a 25,000 mile car could be argued to be the buyers fault and not the sellers.

In the case of the car in question, let's put it this way, you look at two cars that appear to be in the same condition, with the same mileage, both selling for top-dollar, but discover that one car has never been damaged in any way whatsoever, whilst the other has been in a smash and has been repaired, which one would you say is worth more and which one would you buy if there was no discount on either car?

And if you bought a car believing it to be original and never damaged, only to find out later on that it was accident repaired and you had paid over the odds for the car, how would you feel? - Cheated would be My suspicion.

As I say, the car might well be perfect now, but based on what we've heard about the seller so far, they're far from perfect and not the sort of people you'd really want to do business with.

 

I agree
Frame us probably torqued

 

355dreamer wrote that on 10-27-2013.

The car was written off by the insurance company but was then somehow sold with a clean title and has now been repaired and is being sold.

The only problem is, the seller is pretty much denying that the car has been accident repaired despite being given evidence to the contrary.

 

+1

 

First of all. Glad things turned out OK. I got here from the 360 thread where the chap has only had it a month and had it totalled.
Anyway in the UK if an insurance company writes it off then it gets a category rating from A-D
A and B cannot be used on the road (A for scrap metal and B parts can be re-used)
C and D can be repaired. I've owned a CAT D car. Obviously they sell for less.

How does this happen here where the car seems to have no official record of the damage?

 

FYI - Still for sale in Denver, price is 52,000

https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/5942017534.html

From the ad:
---- 1990 Ferrari 348 TS / F355 ----

- Mileage Only: 31,000
- V8 (3.4L)
- 5spd Manual
- RWD
- Power Windows, Locks & Mirrors
- CD
- Keyless Entry Remote
- T-Top Removable
- Ferrari F355 Rear End With Ferrari Challenge Grille Done Professionally
- 18" Ferrari Modena Rims (215 In The Front & 275 In The Rear)
- Upgraded Ferrari Nouvalari Exhaust
- Front Lip
- $25,600 Spent on Maintenance in 2013 (Fresh Tuned Engine & Replaced Clutch & Much More All Receipts Included, It Had Only 28K Miles When Major Service Was Done)
- No Money Spared On This Beauty
- Runs & Looks Excellent
- Fresh Emissions 01/01/2017
- Clean Title With 1 Accident To The Rear
- No Financing - Cash Price: $ 52,000 (Trade For 2015 Escalade/Denali, 2015 Corvette Or HellCat)
- No Test Drives Or Showing Will Happened Unless You Bring $52K Cash With You, No Acception

 

So the rear end accident is being declared this time (most likely to try to avoid any possible lawsuit later on if it weren't declared), but the car is still showing as a clean title, as though the damage caused was only cosmetic and the car was never an insurance write-off.

If someone buys this car believing that it has never been written-off in the past due to the clean title and then later on finds out that it had been previously written-off by an insurance company, what would be the legal implications in regards to the sale? - Would they have any comeback against the seller?

 

From this line in the ad it seems like he's not in a big hurry to sell it: "No Test Drives Or Showing Will Happened Unless You Bring $52K Cash With You, No Acception"

Not a great speller either.

 

A clean title is a clean title. It appears the current owner is not misrepresenting anything. If a future buyer has an issue it will be with the insurance company or the state. The owner has no power or responsibility in the type of title the state has assigned. One can argue that the system is flawed and I would not disagree but that still does not make the dealer responsible or even able to change the title type.

 

Yes, the system in the USA does seem badly flawed when a previous insurance write-off can reappear with a clean title for an unsuspecting buyer to purchase.

As previously mentioned, in the UK, if a car is made an insurance write-off then it is assigned an insurance write-off category: A, B, C or D (with Cat A being the most damaged with no parts to be reused, down to Cat D being pretty much cosmetic damage only).

Only Cat C and Cat D cars can be returned to the road after being repaired, and in all cases, the assigned insurance write-off category for the car cannot be changed ever, so if a car is an insurance write-off in the UK, it can never (legally) have the equivalent of a clean title ever again.

 

If it was written off as a loss. It may have a clean paper title now however when they go to transfer it it may become a 'salvage" title, it can take time for the paperwork to catch up across state lines.

Also
If the cars title was washed through the known process of states at a fast rate the seller may be responsible for fraud if caught.

With this car so well know as salvaged from the insurance it's best to state it was a salvage car.

 

If he gets $52k for it, I'll eat my sock

 

It's not totally infeasible that the seller could get $52K for it.

If someone doesn't do a thorough job on checking out the cars history, doesn't spot that it's been an insurance write off in the past, and if it's been repaired to a high standard then they might find someone prepared to pay the full asking price for it.

Let's be fair here, not every Ferrari fan or car nut thinking of buying a Ferrari, is a member of Fchat, and plenty of buyers don't carry out a proper due diligence or PPI on a car (stupid - but it does happen!), so there is a possibility an unsuspecting buyer could end up paying more for the car than they really should.

And that is the crux of My issue with the clean title - It gives the impression that nothing serious has ever happened to this car (but at least this time the previous rear end damage has been mentioned. The last time it came up for sale, the vendor tried to deny the car had ever been in an accident - Even after Falcon Wing brought it to their attention and offered to send them the pictures of the damage!).

It would be interesting to know just what repairs were carried out on the car, and to what standard the work carried out was done to.


If and when it does finally sell, it would be interesting to get in touch with the seller to find out if they got the full asking price, just so if it did, we could see some pictures of you eating your sock!

 

Still for sale at a somewhat more reasonable $49k: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/697023583/overview/

 

Grateful to Falcon Wing for directing me to this forum, and to you all for posting this info publicly. Saw the car & the other now-deceased cars at Car Heaven and the guy wouldn't budge below $40k. The rear wheel is now no longer touching the fender ("his guy" probably beat it with a sledge hammer to get it back into place); he admitted that the fender on that side had been painted but nothing more. When asked directly about engine or other significant damage caused by the accident, he said "I don't know." Who did all the repair work on the car after the accident? "My guy." Are there records of that repair? Of course not. There were some obvious oil spots on the ground beneath the car, so the oil leak must not have been fixed since 2014. He did say that he & his dad had recently changed the oil in the car--whether it all leaked out or he was trying to put in an even thicker oil solution to hide the leak I don't know. There is only one other car in his entire lot that is listed as having a clean title, every other car is salvage. I think the reason he doesn't want anyone to test drive it is because the wheel alignment issue will become obvious once the car reaches any meaningful speed. Feeling relieved to have done my due diligence and not paid full price for a salvage. I'm looking around for my first Ferrari, let me know if any of you know of any good deals on a quality 348. If anyone has any input on a good price for a clean title 348 with good maintenance history please let me know.