I'm looking into two different options for about the same price. The catch is that the GV is a 97 model completely refurbished with 7k hr on the engines. The 605 is a 09 with 3k hr but needs to be refurnished. Even refurbishing the 605 will never look as good as this GV. What pros or cons would you consider. I know the GV is more expensive to run and the 605 is roomier. Would you consider the extra hr's and the age a great disadvantage for the GV? Thanks in advance.
GV is more airplane all the way around. If you think the 605 is "roomier" then you've never been a in a GV-- the 605 may be wider, but it's much shorter. The 605 is undoubtedly cheaper in every way-- the question is, will it do what you want an airplane to do? If you are using the range of the GV, or carry a lot of people, you won't be happy in the 605. On the other hand, if it's just you and one or two others, and you don't need to fly for 10 hours, the 605 will be just fine.
Depends if you're the one flying it or not. Upgrades are expensive. I personally prefer newer airplanes. A lot changed in aviation in 2005.... everything went digital. Many Pre-2005 airplanes can't be upgraded and will continue a steep depreciation curve. The price of an airplane is directly related to it's utility.
A GV is a great aircraft. Lots of capabilities. Does it already have the 150 APU? Get a run on the ASC status. Get the information on the service plans from RR and the avionics. Compare that to the tip-to-tail program from JSSI. If you can afford to operate the GV then do it. Jeff
I wouldn't worry about age in general, but I would certainly check into the status of calendar inspection items, on both airplanes. Don't the Gulfstreams have a big 72 month inspection? In either case, you want to hire a professional to review the inspection status and compile a list of which things will be due when, and how much they will cost. That's the only way to know. Not cheap, but well worth it.
This. Room for separate bedroom, 2 lavatories so you don't have to share with crew, range at least 1/3 better.
I believe that the GVs switched to a 96 month schedule. But the point of getting a run on the maintenance for the next 3-4 years is prudent. Get a good pre-buy inspection. Does not need to be at a Gulfstream owned facility but it needs to be someone that is well experienced in performing such inspection of the aircraft and the records. If the aircraft is in the US or Europe I can give some recommendations for the facility.
Different classes of aircraft. The Challenger, while a great airplane, comes up short in range, speed and cabin size of a GV. Avionics can be upgraded on a GV IE Planedeck. My advice is to write into the purchase agreement language such as: "Pre Buy inspection to be performed at Gulfstream in Savannah GA. Seller to be responsible for all deficiencies found during inspection including corrosion inspections to doors etc." Last bit of advice, is to hire a professional broker with lots of experience. Bombardier or Gulfstream will pick the plane apart and know where to look. They have no incentive to release the aircraft with open squaks. We did this when we bought our GIV two years ago. It cost the seller almost 1 mil to get the plane up to airworthy status. Bummer for the seller buy great for us.
Can you get a seller to give that assurance? I've been involved in too many airplane deliveries where that was a big issue. I still remember trying to deliver a Lear 25 about 10 years ago "squawk free." We'd fix it, go fly it, and something else would break. Finally, the salesman told the buyer "Hey, it's a Lear 25, it's never going to be 'truly squawk free'!" The deal closed, and I delivered the airplane to them. This was one of the very last 25s made, incidentally, and a reasonably nice airplane (although it did give me my only total hydraulic failure in a Learjet).
Don, I never heard of this verbiage before we bought our plane in 2013. I flew into the Gulfstream facility in Appleton just to do the test flight and acceptance flight. The sellers reps (operator who had the plane on their 135 cert for the last few years had the listing) were going crazy with our rep. Our rep had this verbiage in the contract and it cost the seller almost $1 mil reduction in price. On the test flight, we never made it off the ramp as the main steering hydraulic servo took a dump. The collective moan was awesome. The Lead Tech said, "Maybe you need to get the plane moving before the steering will work." I just smiled and shut the engines down. I think the easiest way to make it work is to put a cap on the pre buy bill. Anything over x amount and either buyer or seller can kill the deal. But we all know once a plane goes into Gulstream, they wont release it until it truly is squawk free. A squak free Lear 25......that would be awesome. The last time I helped in a 25 purchase was back in 1997. It was owned by the Coke (?not the soft drink) corporation. It went to a Pt91 operator in San Louis Obispo. Late serial number, turned out to be a great plane as I kept in touch with the pilots. Another thing Ill throw, put everything on some sort of warranty or corporate care plan. We are getting our engines hung as I type. Rolls Royce found a boat load of 'out of tollerance' parts during the teardown that would not be covered during a normal rebuild. The Honeywell HAPPS plan has payed for itself with 2 display units and a FMS unit.
Agree on getting the service plans. Gulfstream offers an umbrella plan depending upon age that incorporates the others. One can piece meal the individual plans. Another alternative is the tip-to-tail with JSSI. I would take a serious look at all the options as the buy-in for the engines and APU on the manufacturer plans can hurt. Also read the fine print on minimum annual hours and excess hours. Squawk Free can have more than one meaning if additional qualifiers are not added. No squawks could include a dysfunctional TV. Flight squawks. Safety of Flight squawks could include cabin placards and/or interior items that can be argued to be covered under FAA requirements. Fundamentally on this the considerations are: 1) Is the seller desperate to close a deal? (Had one where a prior deal had fallen through but the aircraft was parked at Appleton accumulating storage fees). 2) Seller is representing the aircraft as perfect and won't budge on price. (In this case know a situation where the sellers flight department was cut out of the negotiations and the attorney agreed to squawk free. Buyer had all his people crawl through the aircraft to make sure they found discrepancies far greater than the discount they had wanted - spoiler boards, honeycomb trailing edges.) Definitely have a god pre-buy by someone that is extremely knowledgeable on the type. For a Gulfstream Appleton and Long Beach facilities as well as MidCoast (I know they now call themselves Jet Aviation) would be fine choices. Don't forget that the pre-buy includes the records search too. Also put into your own consideration mix who the prior owners have been and how well did they do on keeping the aircraft well maintained and with which facilities. Bad prior owners can mean expensively chasing intermittent issues over time. Jeff
I've only ever been involved in one new airplane delivery, and on that one, we started out with 20 squawks (on a Citation). The Cessna guy said that was pretty good, he'd seen 80+ before. Most of them were along the lines of "scratch in cabinet" and stuff like that...
