Header Coating Peeling

+1 on the black ... ....... stainless expands more than steel under the same temp conditions .... so prep has to be very good, to get these coating to last a reasonable time period ...... thermal wrap does serve a good purpose ...... but ... I like metallic shields ..... that is what my new headers are getting ...

 

My headers are at Swain right now being coated..I had considered Jet hot and Fabspeeds inhouse service (jet hot anyway it seems).

In a recent conversation with Don/Kromerkraft headers(amazing product) he mentioned this company...i had not heard of them before. New Image Coatings - 651-784-7055 They could be another option.

 

As I understand it today, Fabspeed currently uses a small company called Central Connecticut Coatings. A few other folks do as well.

Their "recipe" is supposedly proprietary and developed by the owner during his time in the aerospace industry. Whether it is better than the others is anyone's guess.

I have a 5 year old set of headers on on my TR8 that were coated there. They look nearly new after 10,000+ miles. But it is a TR8 and it runs a lot cooler than my 355.

Whether my recently coated 355 headers will survive is yet to be determined. This thread has me apprehensive.

 

I looked at this option. Even went into Pegasus Racing planning to buy some of the tape. They told me not to do it because it halves the life of the headers. Racers may be more willing to live with that trade off, if true.

 

I had my Fabspeeds coated locally in CT, silver ceramic coating. They are obviously dull now but zero peeling anywhere...6 years, 15k+ miles. Prep is extremely important...

 

Because it keeps the heat in? Perhaps Ferrari headers would last longer if the shields and packing were removed.

 

I believe header tape is used to keep the heat in which helps the exhaust flow more freely, not to shield components from the exhaust heat. Like I said it's a racer thing.

 

Header wrap is really good to keep the heat in the exhaust that ultimately makes it flow better.
Also if your having issues with emissions you can wrap your exhaust before the cat to get more heat into the cat to burn those emissions better.

 

At this point, i'd avoid the hassle of removing the header just to recoat until my next major. Id buy a header blanket and call it a day

 

I think the main worry is the coating inside the tubes. If the outside is peeling then the inside probably is too.

 

Its peeling and significantly dulled because the coating is not rated for those temps. I'm not sure why Fab keeps clinging to this coating when they have so many failures. The coating itself is rated at 1000F-1100F metal temp. This translates to about 1200F-1500F EGT. Now factor in variables like air flow around the header, exhaust configuration and restriction. Bottom line, they are HOT...... When they get hot they will initially discolor which is the aluminum skin oxidizing. The final step is sacrificial which is essentially where yours are at.

Ultimately you will need a High Temp Ceramic to survive this application. Short headers, tight engine compartment and high EGT's are a recipe for failure with this particular coating. For an indication of the heat these systems are seeing, below is a once FULLY POLISHED set off of a Ferrari F430.
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So many failures?- I see 1. While 0 failures would be ideal, 1 failure isn't so bad when you've sold hundreds, if not thousands, of sets of coated headers over the years. It's also important to note that we are already working with the customer to correct the issue.

You have 14 posts, all of which have to do with Ceramic Coating and Fabspeed. We understand your point and respect your views, but we politely ask you not to continue to speak poorly about our services or products - especially since it seems that you have not have no direct experience with coated Fabspeed headers..

Henry - I do apologize that you have run into an issue with your coating. Upon further inspection, we will do our best to determine what went wrong so that this does not re-occur. I know you are already working with Alex, we will make this gets handled.

 

Joe,

It only takes one to bring out the haters who frequently express their opinions as facts. Unfortunately, that is too often the case today.

For the record, I bought headers, cats and the exhaust from Fabspeed for one reason: Fabspeed's positive reputation on this site.

That is a fact....not an opinion.

John

 

that be a good option...the worst thing about header problems is the labor and time to remove and reinstall them. If you can wrap them or put a header blanket on them while their in the car that is much more attractive option than pulling them sending them out to be fixed then reinstalling them..just my 2 cents

 

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Swaintech believes the coating should be a minimum of 0.015" thick to have any valued effectiveness. I think it is very difficult to get this thickness on the inside of a complicated header such as the 355's

 

+1. Fabspeed does make a nice header blanket.

 

FWIW. I have never seen any posts from the respected Ferrari techs that post on this site recommending ceramic coatings for F355 headers.

 

I'd be more interested in what a Ferrari (or any thermal) engineer would have to say. Opinions can be helpful but physics is physics and until one understands these principals, we're back to opinions.

 

I agree. But the opinions of people that have worked on these cars since they first came out have a lot more value than others. As far as Ferrari goes, aren't we dealing with this ourselves because Ferrari didn't, and then continued this tradition with later models. I don't know how much credibility I would give to Ferrari on this topic.

 

FWIW, titanium is known to have excellent heat retention properties compared to other steels. 321 stainless steel is essentially 304 SS w/ titanium in it.

I've been thinking about this for some time and come time for me to get some headers built, they will most likely be in 321 SS with a header blanket (ex fabspeed). This a nice lightweight setup as well. I will also look into possible V band clamp locations for easy header removal if something fails.

 

Rotary Engines are known to generate alot of heat compared to conventional engines with high EGT's being the norm. Heat management is always a challenge and Ive been dealing with this for years. The legit setups and fabricators don't touch anything less than 321 SS and Iconel if you have the budget. Inconel blankets are the norm. Ceramic coatings are hit and miss, but many seem to have alot of success with Swaintech. Manifold heat wrap is a no no because of oxidation. This is my personal experience from what Ive seen and discussed with experts in the Rotary community. 304 stainless will work too, but it usually super thick. Blankets / coatings still recommended to keep engine bay temps down.