F1 gearboxes:white elephant of the future?

Perhaps a gimmick for you, but some of us who can't shift in 60ms (scud shift time) find it pretty helpful (and faster)...

 

A poor analogy.

I'm one of those dinosaurs that can drive either. In fact, in my youth I drove a cement mixer with two sticks (5X4) and no synchros. If you can drive a manual correctly, it is not hard to drive one with no synchros. As David points out below, you can even drive them without using the clutch at all if you have the right timing and know how to rev match. That's how truck drivers drive trucks. They only use the clutch pedal for starts and stops. Many race cars still have no synchros and most of the drivers do not use the clutch. How many of today's manual owners are really capable is hard to say but it's not hard to learn.

BTW, I've mentioned before that ALL the young car nuts I know have or want manuals. Perhaps it is a bragging point, I don't know.

As for the market, Ferrari's gated shifter is part of what defined a Ferrari. Nostalgia for it is predictable. So the last of the stick shifts will have some collectible "cache" so to speak. They may even be revered. Hard to say. I'm afraid investors may really run up prices which would be a shame for the true enthusiast who just wants to drive a manual.

Dave

 

Wouldn't it seem that someone in the aftermarket will supply parts for F1 systems in the future? There's some 15000 430's out there with F1 systems and I can't see them being hauled to the junkyards one by one as accuators fail.

 

Total F1 hysteria. If people desire these cars, parts and solutions will be, and are being made. I drive manual and F1. Both are engaging and satisfying.

My 355 F1 is fun because it is slower, but still faster than anyone's manual shift here.

My CS is faster and very engaging.

My M4 is faster than the CS and gets boring.

There is a fine line between fast and too fast from the fun perspective.

Love my Alfas, 328, and 930 manuals.

It's all good and different. I think we should stop the hysteria about F1 repair though.

 

The above represents my opinion, F1 transmissions are great for the first buyer, .....
and by the time the car is worth 1/3 of what it originally retailed for, not so much.

F355 and 360 generation will have some number of these converted back to manual.
heaven help the poor sucker if an 458 transmission goes south after the warranty runs out.
At least the older transmission can be fixed when something goes wrong.

The consider the electronics, computers have a lifetime of 15-20 years. Ferrari make cars that are worthy of driving for 50+ years......................

 

In the era of self drive cars, those you drive yourself will have demand for the sheer experience of driving, something auto drive despite its advanatges cant offer.

Its the same logic that applies to older ferraris now, their "performance" is not current, so they are about performance witin an experience envelope. Paddles offer less of a drivig experience for the hobbyist therefore have less appeal on the used market, a market which is mostly about hobbyist enthusiasts.

We can also say that most modern sportscars have performance that exceeds whats possible on road, so the extra performance of a paddle is irrelevant other than to brag, and of course ease of use for tossers in traffic, somethign not that relevant for a used ferrari hobbyist.

Porche for one has figured out this experiential market segement actauly exists and is robust enough that it is planning a whole range of cars to support it, while ferrari panders to valet parking crowd exclusively.

 

Computer doing all the driving? It's on the way ...

 

Manual transmission cars are more expensive, because prospectors have targeted them and are holding them hostage from enthusiasts. It is pure greed and ROI.

On the track, F1 or DCT is definitely superior if your goal is purely getting the best track times.

However, on the open road, DCT or F1 makes no sense unless you are physically challenged in some way. A MT gives you a more connected experience and more ultimate control of the car. It should also be a lot less expensive to maintain and lighter than the semi-auto systems.

The dumbing down of drivers is eventually going to lead to cars that drive themselves and everyone being stripped of their freedom to drive - you will just be another passenger in a car which will drive for you.

The artificial price increases for Ferrari MT cars can be corrected if Ferrari does the right thing and re-introduces the MT back into the lineup.

 

The stick is dead.

Killed by consumer preference, increased fuel economy, and fewer emissions.


Deal with it.

 

Sure - I hear Porsche is having a real tough time with getting those new MT-only Cayman GT-4 models sold.

 

Are those the same people who say they will never see a 3d movie?

 

You must remember..the consumer dictates sales. If the majority of Ferrari buyers are buying an autobox, then that is what Ferrari will build. It is not good business sense to build a product a minimal amount of people will buy. The costs of development more then likely out number the buyers.

I guess you could make it an expensive option, but they still need to develop and manufacture all the components to make it work. With today's mega tech cars, it's not a cheap or simple thing to do.

 

I get your point. Ferrari is catering to collectors - not enthusiasts. And that is not good.

The problem is the driving skills of today's typical new Ferrari buyer is basically non-existent. That is why Ferraris are so expensive - all of those idiot-proof doodads they need to put into the cars. The few very good drivers typically turn those off; but, why should they have to pay for it?

Why not make a less expensive car for those who actually have skills and don't need all those expensive features? A car with a lower price point should put in in range of many enthusiasts who typically buy used Ferraris.

 

Its time for a little honesty

Ferrari manual boxes were never first rate, with the mid engine versions the worst.

Yep, I said it -- now everyone on F chat will go ballistic. Clunky, awkward, noisy, heavy, and inconsistent. Clutch eaters. 2nd gear that rarely engaged perfectly and almost never cold. The Germans built much better boxes.

If you really love a good gearbox, get a manual German car.

 

LOL

 

Wow you could not be more wrong. Ferrari is a luxury brand. Its a 210 MPH car that won't be driving more than 1000 miles a year.

It's nothing more than the male version of a fancy purse, complete with $1800 badges on the sides just in case no one figured out what it is.


Who cares what gearbox is in it? Does someone who buys a purse want to know the pedigree of the cow that gave up the leather?

 

Some I'm sure but I wouldn't say all. My F355 couldn't possibly shift better. If you're ever in the Chicago area come take it for a drive

 

They aren't smooth like a Honda box. They aren't lubricated well enough to shift when cold. The open gate guaranteed a sub-optimal gear lever movement.

But the awkward operation of the shifter was part of the Ferrari identity, and it is a beauty to look at.

Back to topic: People got fed up with $10,000 F1 actuators, so dealers figured out how to rebuild leaky F1 actuators for < $3000 and indies figured out how to upgrade failed pumps for < $2000. The F1 gearbox will remain serviceable for the enthusiasts with the means to purchase these cars.

Another example: The F355 water pump. Owners got fed up with the short life and high cost of the OEM one. So someone designed and blueprinted a better one at a 60% discount.

 

hi Mitch,
if your thinking is correct the Enzo from 50 will buttare throw in the garbage......

 

Hi,

Unfortunately your observations about gearboxes are more correct ...
I have more friens that likes manual but if you digging good the second gear not entry ....
A big example is the "Marchettino video" in youtube about 599 manual, the driver never be able to insert the second during 3-2 ... he pas fron neutral to 1!!
Really the people want a car like that??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3YcQ5wegQ

 

Presumably Ferrari now agree hence Getrag in 458/California

 

I'll have one of those in the future.

I can drive it now.

I can even start it ............ w/o a key!

 

No manual.. yeah right. When I go down to Mexico they're all manual transmissions. 99% of cars.

The manual transmission is dying next year because the US is the center of the universe and our preferences guide the rest of the world. *rolls eyes*

Manual 3 pedal cars aren't dying out anytime soon.

 

How many of these silly debate threads do we need? Are people professional F1 vs Manual debaters? I say pork is the best protein ever and no one should ever eat anything else.