To jump or not to jump on the 512TR bandwagon?

oh and ur right - the car market is 9 to 15 times levered just like subprime was

how did I miss that?

 

So I was right on the money here? Not bad..
This cars next owner will be very happy..values be damned. Prices go up and they go down, makes no difference to me what they do. Won't change my life at all. At the end of the day whoever buys this has a car that will put a smile on his face every time he drives it or just glances at it.

 

Who is that REDLINER ? He'd better stay quiet!

 

Redliner is a hater, needs to be banned.

Regarding 94 engine cover, yes they are all black on the forward half inlay so to speak. I have a 94.

 

Marshall sold a 355 for 180k.
I bet the 94 512 goes quickly

If u guys are smart like me u wld get short subprime ferraris - this bubble is going to burst like Uve never seen

And ps I wldnt sell my 94512tr for 500k and I wdnt sell my 95 355 for 250k

 

My opinion is that the 512 TR used to be undervalued (12 months ago) and is now correctly valued respective to the intrinsic driving and ownership pleasure.

Hence I am holding mine.

If they rise much more then I will sell, because I'm a driver and not a collector. I can only justify holding a car if it provides pleasure proportional to value.

The very fact that I can justify the current value by driving and ownership pleasure along, leads me to conclude that the 512 TR has yet to rise further. Because all the older models (F40, BB, Daytona, Dino, etc.) are priced way more than I could justify on the basis of driving / ownership pleasure.

Just my opinion.

 

So if you would sell neither of your cars then they are actually only worth what you paid - forever.

Therefore, just how does it help you to whip values up? How does it help you to have a more expensive car to insure, higher insurance rates, higher shop labor rates, higher everything - if you are **never** going to sell? Wouldn't you rather your 512TR be worth $125k and your 355 worth 50k? It's like flying under the radar. Some folks like to fly under the radar... Some like the pomp. These "values" aren't helping the guys who say they'll never sell. Apparently it's just a "feel-good" thing.

Since I personally would *never* sell my 355, I would rather it remain a $50k car. It's appreciation in value can only hurt me in the long run. Because I ain't selling it. And I don't want it looked upon by mechanics and people who collect my money so that I can enjoy it as though it's an Enzo.

 

Not to add fuel to this fire but the comments are well in line with Carl Ican's interview( I watched the whole thing live) on MSNBC today. He was saying how the market is overvalued and the multiples don't make sense. I can only see those statements driving more money into hard assets like Exotics and Art.

Everyone keeps saying the bubble will burst and I keep asking what other asset class is there to put your money into? Until something comes up, this seems to be it.

Again, no real robust recovery in housing, ECB asking the fed to keep rates low, "overvalued market" as stated by Carl Ican today....seems to perpetuate this run.




Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice!

 

Our economy is a false economy propped up by credit cards, artificially low interest rates, and social promotion.

1) College education means nothing now - anyone can get one and have it subsidized
2) Everything is more expensive due to the availability of credit - and people who shouldn't have credit enjoy the privilege, propping up prices
3) Government gives more and therefore asks for more, but it cannot sustain itself and asks the wealthy to do so
4) The average American worker - and even high income folks in high cost of living areas on the coasts - is cash poor with little or no savings but can still get by due to the falsely low interest rates and available credit
5) Wealthy individuals who are conservative don't keep money in the bank or buy treasuries because the rates stink - so they invest in the market and in niche investments, possibly F-cars

Once interest rates go up - and they should - the air will come out of the balloon. And it darn well should.

All this of course is based on sound economic theory and fundamentals. Naturally, we all are realistic to the idea that the American economy sadly does not operate this way. We operate on emotion, hysteria, and herd stampede. Interest rates should be at 5-6% in a healthy economy. It'd be better for everyone: prices would be lower, things would be harder to obtain, but worth the true value once earned and obtained.

Oh boy. I need to take a chill pill now

 

Breeeeath Deeeply! lol


I see your points in 2005-2007 but I don't think there's easy credit for the low end. Also, student loan debt is now higher than cc debt.

I do totally agree with your #5 though.

I also agree once interest rates go up substantially, things will change. But.....what is fundamentally changing to make interest rates rise?

Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice!

 

Huh? I have no idea what u mean. My carrying costs aren't impacted by the cars value. Braden, p1 and wwofcars charge me fixed rates. To the extent I decide to raise the agreed value on any of the cars is purely personal on how badly I want to rebuy a car.

The reason I enjoy watching the prices appreciate is because it makes all the guys who missed the parade come out and say stupid **** which entertains me greatly

 

And ps its threads exactly like this one that you started that provides the forum for the stupidity and ultimately makes it harder to buy a car. Rule number 1 whenever ur trying to buy something is don't tell anyone you're a real buyer.

 

To the Bulls:

Let the Bears relish in their argument against future appreciation because as we all know, the market only swings around when the vast majority is on the wrong side of the bet. From what I see, we're just about even for now so let 'em ride

 

Maybe it does; and maybe it doesn't. There are plenty of voices against the idea of jumping on the bandwagon. I was looking for sound advice... not market "analysis," of which we have an excessive amount.

Most of us are always real buyers... but at the right price. For me the exuberance is a bit too irrational right now.

 

The funny thing is this isn't really a bull bear thing. I think all of us "bulls" are happy to own and carry our cars at the prices we paid. All assets have volatility - all of them. But having kids and guys who have virtually no skin in the game come on here and pontificate - it deteriorates the passion that this board should represent. It's like telling Ron Jeremy how to do his job better. He doesn't care nor shld he.

So in sum, u think the market is tulip like how about u get off the board and go find another hobby cuz the guy who can write the 400k check without hesitation doesn't need to see some amateur who is trying to be the next John Paulson. Comparing a levered, Barney frank induced real estate market to ferraris is the most asinine thing I've heard. It's the sheer stupidity and ignorance that drives people crazy. Know ur audience - showing up to a karate match with a baseball glove isn't going to help much

 

How is sound advice on a buy sell decision not the same as a market analysis? That's exactly what u asked for. I'm not following

If u wanted the car bad enough and had enough money to not care, u wld be posting " just took down this 94 512tr and here r the pics" as opposed to what u actually posted

So u sld ur car for 80k let's say cuz u got scared out of ur position and now u wanna know what fchat guys think u shld do with a price that's 350k or whatever.

 

Come on Rick. You are getting very wound up here. And now you are conjecturing and advancing inaccuracies.

You may be missing the whole point of my original post. I don't want the car "bad enough" at all. And I don't want it "bad enough" to overpay. Bill Gates can't afford to "overpay" any more than I can. It's called paying the right money for the right merchandise. So no - I don't think I can "afford" it because I don't think the buy is correct. Whether my bank account is larger or smaller than the next guy's is irrelevant. Big shots don't call the shots around here. Free speech, sound contribution, and etiquette call the shots.

My post was appealing to the emotional side of things. I imagined it to be a light - LIGHT - discussion based on nostalgia, current and past experiences, moving on, etc. Maybe I opened up a can of worms and deserve yet another "market analysis" thread for being naive in the first place for not anticipating it. Still, I am appreciative of the contributions and opinions.

What I don't think adds to the discussion is an attempt by anyone to hush the voice of another person just because what he says might be out of favor or unpopular. I mean, we are adults here -- not arshole kids at academia where brainwashing promotes only one opinion and one method of thinking. Everyone is free to speak. The freedom to speak openly here is not predicated on saying something that most people agree with.

 

I kind of don't get this. You asked if you should jump in or not....well, all the financial factors...."market analysis" are a part of this. Given your profile Ferrari list, I'd say you're a player alright.

But...if you're looking to jump in at the right time, wait a couple of years until something else is hot. The risk is, if you're waiting until prices cool, that cooling off may be at a much higher price level if you're not waiting until the next recession.

I live in Florida. If I want to buy a convertible, I buy it in winter when the F dealers up north are starving for a sale. Timing is everything lol


Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice!

 

You got my point - we are debating wether or not there is a god and what does he/she/ it look and sound like. There's no one right answer. I'm a believer that if you can afford something you shldnt put things off to tmrw. I watched my best friend die from leukemia at 25 and it took 18 short months start to finish. I think many of the contributors to this board post from the following position:" I really want to be Apart of this club but I'm probably biting off more than i can chew" and that results in a negative passion destroying tone in general.

So the answer your question is simple - if u can afford it and u have passion for the car u shld buy it back. If it appreciates another 25 percent over the next 2 years maybe ull kick ur self In the ass

 

Oh, if it's just your emotions talking and you can afford to do so BUY IT!

I've always lived by....use the fine china and silverware everyday....give the guests the paper plates.

Life's short....enjoy it the best you possibly can.


Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice!

 

In my original post I **assumed already** the whole market analysis discussion. I attempted to yield to the whole idea that prices have gone way up and are at the same time difficult to gauge.

The market analysis is well known by many including myself... for the purpose of my original post I attempted to submit to the prevailing wisdom and appeal to the opinions of fellow F-chatters in that backdrop. That's what I was trying to do.

 

exactly
u sound like my brutha fron anutha mutha!

 

On a side note, when i called that Goldman place about their '94 TR, the guy told me prices can only go up uP UP. So in his opinion, TR's are ripe for the pickin and that $399k was right on the money

PS. hope we're not turning you off

 

I wld unquestionably buy ur car back. I've done it 4 times and thank god I did

 

I think I am just going to let Marshall Goldman run my entire portfolio lol. Does anyone have a brokerage account with them?