And also, statistics all went down the toilet from the moment someone decided to change the points sistem....and besides for almost the last 20 years, most cars finish all races...when Lotus was still Lotus, that was far from being the case. It's a matter of identity, i'm not British ( at best spanish according to some ) but i believe the most Brits (at least the one old enough to know what Lotus is) will agree, that Lotus is the "real" british team, not Mclaren.....
Other than Ferrari they're all mixed race to me. And there's nothing wrong with that if it wasn't that some still don't know who their real father is.
Lotus=Colin Chapman IMHO. I'm a honda fan and I can't believe the mess they are in with mclaren. Forget points, both cars finishing consistently should be their goal for the remainder of this year.
It's up to you if you want to be subjective rather than objective, but in this case, the stats don't lie: McLaren is ahead of Lotus in terms of success.
Well, I am old enough to have known personally Colin Chapman and do some business with him, and I don't agree with you. There was a bit of a rogue behind the facade of being a clever engineer. It's bad to speak ill of the dead they say, but Chapman, who had the reputation of a braggard, attributed to himself what was often the work of others, and many "breakthroughs" at Lotus came from the designers who never got the rewards they deserved. I think Chapman lost his touch after Clark's death and became a showman more than an innovator. It is sad to say that his early demise probably saved him from a certain spell in prison. Chapman was heavily involved in the De Lorean swindle for which his accountant (accomplice) served a jail term.
I know that William, i know he would probably ended up in jail, but if you look at f. history and you put side by side Ron Dennis and Collin i guess most will agree wich one was more important for the sport.
The "bone of contention" was which British team was the most successful; the stats show that McLaren is. People can have a different opinion, that's for sure. Since Enzo Ferrari's death and the 23 years drought at the Scuderia, McLaren has become the team I have followed. I have been lucky to visit the team base and the road car production at Guilford, which is just down the road from me, and I was impressed. At present, McLaren and Honda are caught in those punitive regulations that prevent normal testing and development to take place to allow them to catch up with the opposition. I think it's very sad when an established team is reduced to fight with one hand in its back, instead of providing real competition. The engine freeze rule stinks.
Wunderbar! Reminds me of the Top Gear when they raced against the German auto-show and both sides showed up in Minis and proceeded to argue if it was German or British ; ) Seriously though - BMW rebuilt Rolls from the ground up and re-hired the entire factory from other local industries. Many of the workers are British, but the company is distinctly German run at this point. Bentley no idea because not a big Audi fan : )
But it should be noted that both BMW and VW, which respectively bought Rolls-Royce and Bentley didn't move them away from England, and there is still a certain Britishness in both. A lot of the engineering is done in Germany, in the case of RR, and the body shells come from there, but the assembly is done in UK. VW chose Goodwood to build the new RR underground factory - quite symbolic. The management may be German, but there is a lot of British input in the design, mostly in the interior. It's the same for Bentley and Bugatti; VW manages them with typical German efficiency and provides a lot of the engineering, but haven't uprooted them from their countries of origin. It's debatable is both Rolls-Royce or Bentley would keep their prestige if they were not "Make in Britain".
Agree, curent rules that prevent teams from testing goes agains everything F.1 should be....the results are rigged and decided from the moment plans leave the drawing boards...this is stupid, this is not competition, this is not f.1.
No argument from me there. However, we have to remember that this is what the "stakeholders" wanted. The days of *two* dedicated test teams were unsustainable, and everyone recognized that - They're whining about costs now, trying to run even a single test team pretty much doubles the (race) budget........ We may not like it, but sims & CFD modeling is where we're at. Rigged? I don't think so. Don't like it? Get yer heads down and do a better job! It's hard! As it damn well should be! Despite appearances right now, Merc's domination *will* end. Cheers, Ian
For sure. My understanding is that BMW hired a ton of skilled craftsman from things like the local boating industry to do detailed work like woodworking, metalworking, etc. Things that are the highlights and create the atmosphere of a RR. They were smart to understand that it isn't just a badge. But at the same time, I have an in-law that use to work for BMW M, then on the hydrogen BMW's, then was re-assigned to RR. Hopefully the Germans brought more quality control and not too much over-engineering ; ) So they maintained the essence of RR, but it truly was re-created from the ground up. Agreed - moving it out of GB would be a bad idea IMHO.
No question. I also like Marchionne upping the stakes by saying publicly that Ferrari WILL be more competitive by Monza. That is a direct goal/challenge to Arrivebene and the team, make no mistake. Ferrari does not want to be embarrassed at home and this is him saying it in a nice way - I expect you to make more progress. Period. F1 Racing News | Racer.com - F1: Ferrari "stronger" by Italian GP, chairman says
These kinds of comment are not conclusive to success; why is Marchionne doing this? As for Ferrari being embarassed at home, it happened many times already ...
Because he wants to push the team. I agree with his tactics. Better to set a goal and fail then have no goal at all. Right they have. The last time it was one of the final straws leading him to fire Luca.
I know it will...but untill then it sucks.....at least when Ferrari was wining the others had every chance to "ketchup"
Yes I think so, but then we are fudging ... I guess you could use a ratio based on number of races per season then versus now? But heck that would take a long time to work out! Pete
No, but has that happened? And the goals for this season was to win 2 races. So set some realistic goals instead. They want to be closer then they have been so far. That is something that can be measured fairly easily at Monza.
On that basis you'd need to count how many cars were taking part. 2nd out of two is worse than 3rd out of 20 cars of you ask me.
+1 Throw in the further curve ball of points coming like confetti these days, and the "comparisons" continue to be impossible. Cheers. Ian
