Hamilton would not be in F1 if it weren't for Ron Dennis. That is a fact. Hamilton was groomed for the job. No one else would have done that.
Bingo. Hamilton owes Dennis everything. In addition to what you say, Hamilton joined what was one of the top all time teams. Many drivers had to work their way up from lesser teams -- including Vettel and Schumacher. That being said, it was time for the two to part. Hamilton gave McLaren a lot and McLaren gave Hamilton a lot. Leaving McLaren wasn't a put down. It's just business -- and Ron knows that better than anyone. It's not the first time in sports or racing history this has happened. Go back to F chat at the announcement that Hamilton was leaving for Mercedes. EVERYONE here said it was a stupid move and he would never win another championship again -- and maybe never another race!
You guys make it sound like Hamilton left after 1-2 years. He was with Mclaren for 6 YEARS. Where would Schumacher be without Mercedes and Jordan? Did he drive for them for 6 years? Was Hamilton supposed to stay and retire at McLaren because Ron supported him during his early career? This is hilarious. When Hamilton first left McLaren to join the tire eating Mercedes everyone was laughing. He was the big fool. All the F1 experts said that he flushed his career down the toilet. They said he will be lucky to get a few wins. Now that he is on his way to break all records Hamilton is the most ungrateful prick. How dare he leave after only 6 years? I wonder why you guys didn't complain that he was ungrateful back in 2012? Back in 2012 his departure was fine. It's only a problem now because Hamilton is wining.
By the way, if you guys want to talk about loyalty there is nobody better than Vettel. The team gave him a rocket which enabled him to become the youngest champion and break all records in F1 for 4 years. Then when his teammate beat him during the first few races of 2014 he was on the phone with Maranello. That is real loyalty. Forget the 4 years of struggles at McLaren. Vettel makes his decisions after 4 races.
So sitting in a competitive car that was able to win at least one GP every year is "throwing away your best years"??? So everything below the absolute dominant car in the grid (first Brown, then RB) is a dog and a waste of time? So it looks like everybody apart from Hamilton and Rosberg are wasting their time during the last 1.5 seasons... Don´t missunderstand me, I understand one leaving after so many years as Hamilton and Vettel did leaving looking for a new challenge but please do not pretend like Hamilton is robbed some deserved championships by McLaren...Over the years they did not bad at all but obviously others were better and those did not seem to need Hamilton to get their championships...
Is that all you got from the whole discussion? 6 years with 1 team is a fairly long stint in F1. For someone to say that Hamilton is ungrateful and that he owes Ron more is just insane. We already saw what Vettel did as soon as things got rough. What if Hamilton left McLaren in 2009 the way Vettel left RB? What would you call Hamilton? If Hamilton won 4 consecutive championships with McLaren I can assure you he would still be at McLaren today.
Even during Red Bull's 4 championship years, the McLaren was still competitive and won several GPs. I think part of the reason Ham left McLaren was because he didn't have clear #1 status after Button joined the team, or preferential treatment. Most everyone was surprised by JB's performance at McLaren. Many said he was committing career suicide moving to Macca with Hamilton. Button even outscored Ham in the 3 years they were together.
Did you actually read my post??? I said that I understand one leaving a team to look for a new challenge so I am with you that it was OK to leave when he left and there was a new opportunity...I just wanted to point out that it is as insane thinking Hamilton "wasted his best years" there....
What else would you call coming in 4th and 5th for 4 years for a top driver? These guys are all driving to win a championship. I wouldn't go as far as Alonso to say 2nd is the same as 20th, but a top 3 driver cruising around in 4-5th place for 4 years is a big waste of time. What the hell would you call 5th place for Vettel in 2014? What if he had 4 years of 2014 in a row? Would you call that a good use of time?
Yes, we all know that Hamilton historically always requested #1 status at every team....lol. You might want to take a look at 2012 if you want to know why he left. He had 5 DNFs. 3 of those were from pole toward the end of 2012. That doesn't really help when you want to re-sign your star driver. How about the trophy issue? Not to mention that driving for Ron is like being in the military. Remember Alonso's military haircut in 2007? I see we are adding up 3 season again. Did you also know that Hamilton won 2 out of those 3 seasons? Did you know that Hamilton had almost double the amount of DNFs (11 vs 6)? Did you know Hamilton had 10 wins vs 8 for Button? Did you know Hamilton had 9 poles vs 1 for Button? But somehow in your mind Button was the better of the two.
You keep missing the point. The point is that Hamilton was carried by Ron Dennis since he was 11. Financed and always put in the best seats when rising through the ranks. He made the right choice by leaving looking at it now, but damn, if I was working for a company that has been supporting me for 15 years orso, getting paid handsomly etc I reckon I would stay and try and bag them more championships. It's not like Mclaren was **** the year he was leaving. FWIW plenty here found it odd and a little ungrateful he was leaving. Big difference is that Vettel wasn't supported by Red Bull for his entire career, and he was already in talks with Ferrari in 2008! Vettel has always spoken about Ferrari, had a Scuderia when he raced with Toro Rosso...this was his dream. Hamilton, especially when he was at Mclaren waxed lyrical about Mclaren, Senna, Mclaren and Senna some more.
1) Alonso knew what the material was, where it came from, and what to do with it. And, he used it to his advantage (aka -- cheated). 2) Alonso didn't like the idea that he wasn't number one in the Mac Team and that upstart kid Hamilton was beating him. So, he used tricks on the track and threatened Ron Dennis that he'd spill the beans to the FIA if he didn't get number one status. (Ron refused and Alonso never carried out the treat). 3) When questioned about the affair from the FIA, Alonso did everything he could to distance himself and blame the team to save his skin. Involved? I would say so.
I think you keep missing the point. 1st year failed championship due to bad calls/spygate. 2nd year barely won championship. Next 4 years driving around for 4th-5th in the championship. He basically gave half his career to McLaren. 6 years is the longest stint for any of the current drivers on the grid. Please tell me what else does he owe Ron? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RedBull discover Vettel when he was 10-11 years old and gave him the BIG OPPORTUNITY? Seems like you conveniently forgot that. To you it's all about bashing Hamilton. Vettel fought and almost won the championship in his first season with RB in 2009. Then he broke all records and picked up 4 championships in 2010-2013. He basically had 5 perfect seasons. First they found him then they gave him all of his victories, championships and poles. Except for 1 lucky win with Ferrari he would have ZERO without RB. To show his appreciation Vettel decided to run away after a few bad races in 2014. I think he owes RedBull a lot more than Hamilton owes McLaren. Hamilton owes McLaren nothing. The only people that are making this into a discussion and saying that he owes Mclaren/Ron more than 6 years are the ones that can't stand his recent success with Mercedes. By the way, Mercedes has been there for most of his career as well.
I think this is the normal way it has to be...You have three or four top drivers that are able to win a championship, name them Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel plus Button who was lucky to be in the Brawn GP at the right time. Most likely the first three will not drive again in the same team (Hamilton/Alonso was special because at that time Hamilton was nothing but a rookie) so only one of them can win the title due to the car. With the sister car (be it Webber or Rosberg) following in the shadow that means that the best the other two top drivers can achieve is third...One time this is Hamilton (during the Red Bull Year), one time this is Vettel (now in the Mercedes dominance). As both Hamilton and now Vettel even won single races that does mean that the car was not a complete dog, it simple did not match the dominant car. I just do not think that those years in between the title are a "waste of time", they are just the way of life. To answer your question: I would call 2014 a compensation of the luck driving in the prefect car for almost 4 years for Vettel. Just as I think Hamiltons years are a compensation for the luck he has now to be in the Mercedes at the right time. It just shows that the pendulum swings in both directions, one time you are up, one time you are down. Just think of the other drivers in the field who might never have the chance to shine in a car like the RB of 201x or the Mercedes of last and this season. I just don´t like the behavior of the Hamilton fans like he deserves the very best car guarantee the championship every year and as soon as he does not have that it is all so unfair....Few had the luck to be always in the right car, basically Fangio was the only one who had this instinct. Most likely Hamilton will win a third WDC this year entering a very small circle of drivers to do so, winning more needs special circumstances like an era of Ferrari or Red Bull. As Hamilton looks like to be just in such an era with Mercedes himself there is absolutely no need to whine about the years before. And again: I neither think that Hamiltons owes McLaren something nore does Vettel Red Bull. They had a contract and this contract either ended or both parties agreed to go separate ways...If one thinks there must be loyalty in this sport should look at Heinz-Harald Frentzen whose career would have been most likely different without his loyalty to Sauber...
I agree. The whole discussion started with a few here saying Hamilton is ungrateful and not loyal toward Ron/McLaren. I know these guys wish he was in McLaren right now fighting to get out of Q3. Hamilton already gave them half of his career....he owes them nothing. You have to be in the right car at the right time no matter how good you are.
A driver of Hamilton's talent (and now record) will have options denied others. That's how he got into, and stayed in the Macca development program. And why MB came knocking with an even better seat. There's no room for sentimental loyalty at this level. Neither by team nor driver.
