Time running out at McLaren?

Toyota had Ferrari data, IIRC.

BTW, they admitted it before things got ugly and settled for an economic compensation. Not exactly the same situation than McLaren, who insisted in trying to sweep the issue under the carpet till it was too late. Just for the record.

 

Yes ..I am getting mixed up with old Flavio and Renault, when he was in bed with the rat..

BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula One | Renault escape spy row punishment

 

Interesting comments from Boullier today articulating the specific issues with the Honda unit not really being its power, but rather its ability to harvest energy, which ice heard has been a constant source of unreliability due to overheating. I suspect is mclaren gets outside help for Honda components, it will specifically be for that issue. This essentially means Honda are forced to not fully deploy full power on the straights and are stuck with minimal harvesting through the course of a race. If they're harvesting say 40-50% less than Mercedes then I could genuinely see Honda grabbing nearly a full second just by remedying this issue. Some of the best engineers in the world are with Zytec and they are in bed with Mercedes. Quite the issue Honda has.....

 

Harvesting is KEY.

We're working with Bosch on this for our LMP1 car.

WIthout a great system you don't have a chance.

It's not easy.

 

If the cooling problem caused by Honda or McLaren? Is it due to Honda PU design/layout or is it a McLaren packaging issue?

 

A few years back, I worked with a guy who was trying to get a two piece steel rod apart from a CNC machining centre that screwed together.

"Do you want a hand with that?" I enquired.
"No! - I've got it! I don't need help from you! was his curt reply.
"okay! - Fair enough!" I said and left him to it.

He was battling away trying to get the two parts unscrewed for @ an hour, "F"ing and blinding about this rod that wouldn't come apart when I again asked: "Are you sure you don't want a hand with that?"
"I've been in engineering for over twenty years! - I don't need you telling Me how to get a stupid rod apart!" came the response.

I shrugged My shoulders and left him to it for another 3 hours until he finally declared that it wasn't coming apart for love or money!

"Well" I said, "It would probably help if you were turning it the right way! - It's a left hand thread on that rod! All you've been doing is making it tighter and tighter!".

With that, I took the rod from him, placed the spanners on the flats machined into each section of the rod and turned them as you would normally to tighten something up.

within a minute the rod was split into it's two components.

The point of this little tale?: Sometimes it pays big dividends to ask others for assistance rather than battling on on your own in a pig-headed manner!

 

Where have I read that before?

F1 has *never* been "easy". Neither should it be.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Is it usually an issue with a couple key components, or is it an all or nothing deal. As in: everything must work in harmony correctly or nothing will work right?

I've heard rumors that they had a couple sensors constantly getting fried among a couple other issues, but they've kept it under the radar very well.

 

I think it's a bit of both actually. Ron stated they went with this tiny design somewhat knowing such designs were going to create challenges.

 

Correct.

Also:-
1) McLaren were allowed to benefit from the stolen goods they received which was completely wrong.
2) McLaren lied and denied at every turn
3) McLaren never had to put their hand in their own pocket to pay one penny.

McLaren were allowed to knowingly receive stolen goods, lie about it, win a championship with what they stole and never had to put their hands in their own pockets as retribution.

There is real beauty in the natural justice of their current predicament. Especially as the timing of it coincides with the return of the Ron - the leader of the coverup. To this day Ron hasn't apologized to Ferrari a testament to his real character.

 

Hahahahaha!! Thanks my friend!

 

Didn't McLaren swap to their own kers after Honda's kept failing?

 

BBC Sport - Formula 1: Cracks appearing between Honda and McLaren

BBC article via McNish on the Honda/Mclaren reality now.

 

They are a mess, but whitmarsh is peeing his pants in laughter....

 

Mac and Honda have a Ten year contract????

Omg it just gets worse.

 

LOLOLO, does anyone have Ron's phone number...i think i'm gonna give him a call, lololo

 

So given Honda have virtually limitless $$$ to burn on this project, is it possible under the rules for them to develop an entirely new engine concept in parallel to this years piece of junk and homologate it for next year if and when they realise their inexperienced and insular engineering team can't fix their problems by re-inventing science that is available externally?

 

I guess so.....to bad they can't but Mercedes

 

"Yes & no"..... The engine "concept" is (rightly or wrongly is another debate) pretty well defined in the regulations. Within those regs they're free to "start over", but there's only so much they can do.

However, I'm not even sure that with the now infamous "homologation loophole" that they've even homologated their unit yet, so they can do whatever they want until the start of next season.

I think.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Recent F1 (the past 25+ years) has had very narrowly defined regulations...that has become "part of the game."

Cutting edge technology almost always follows a trickle down integration. That is, a one-off for a Formula car becomes a limited production for super cars becomes a component of mass produced cars. Anyone who thinks that F1 technology is going to be available at your local Chrysler/Fiat dealer simultaneous to its 'cutting edge' use in F1 is really just fooling themselves and trying to justify a poorly formed argument against the current formula.

Another example is the BMW i3. Fifteen years ago, most race cars didn't have as much carbon fiber content as the i3.

Most electric and hybrid cars have some form of energy recovery (why do you think Prius brakes last 100k miles? Because they only operate below 10mph). Clearly harvesting is not easy at the F1 level, but that suggests that it's not very efficient at the road car level, too. I.e., room for trickle down technology to improve efficiency...i.e., relevance.

I'm not saying that every bit of technology or every solution found in F1 is going to be on a road car...but, to suggest that the efforts being made around forced induction, energy recovery, etc. have no relevance is simply not true.

 

That is indeed what the article claims!

However, I can't help thinking both party's have some pretty solid "get out" clauses if needed/required.

I do think Honda were expecting a team or two to be lining up for their PU next season - And be willing to pay the going rate - But that's not looking so likely right now!

As I and many others have noted, I expected them to struggle this year, but there's a big difference between struggling & completely sucking!

I guess the Q becomes, will they get it right next season?

Cheers,
Ian

 

Don't think so Ian, Ferrari sucked a lot less last year and still they are behind Merc, but at least they where reliable.....and from what i heard marmorini , the problem was relativly easy to fix, he had simply used smaller turbos because the aero guys requested so...Honda as got bigger problems, nothing seems to work on that engine.....

 

If F1 refuses to allow teams to develop their engines... they're screwed. They can't possibly catch up I don't think. However, they do have the best hypothetical chance if that changes though because they are Honda's and will be in the future, primary customer. They could potentially build an amazing PU that could topple Merc's...hypothetically. Then again, McLaren still have to build a car that works. I honestly don't see how satellite teams using the PU's of a factory team are ever going to win.

Williams may get faster but they're never going to beat Merc using a Merc PU. Haas or anyone else will never beat Ferrari using their PU. They could potentially win a race here or there... but nothing more than that.

 

*Everyone's* behind Merc though!

Is their reliability worse than last year?

Fair comments. Uncle Rons "size zero" doesn't seem to be panning out right now either.

Indeed!

A whole world of hurt......

Cheers,
Ian

 

The rules for engine development were the same for Mercedes as Honda now. In fact, they bent the rules a bit for Honda if I remember.