Interesting comment

Well, yeah...

 

Just another bubble due to the car shows on TV about flipping cars.

 

Lol

 

Your comment maker is right. The speculators hurt the hobby because the hobby is about the love of the cars- not flipping cars.

 

The true hobbyist is hurt on several levels by speculators

1) If a hobbyist owns a car, they now worry about it's value more. So, they drive less and do more to protect it's value than drive it.

2) There's this constant pressure to sell. It's difficult to turn down a big paycheck.

3) Parts get more expensive. Mechanical fixes cost more. "Specialists" are now required as provenance becomes important. "Who did" the service is a more important factor.

4) Authenticity becomes important. Suddenly modding the car is a negative, even if you want it that way. It's no longer "your car". You have become some kind of steward of future.

5) If you were saving to buy car, it's out of reach now. The sudden explosion of values has pushed many enthusiasts out of the market in favor of speculators only interested in their "investments".

6) There's an urgency to "buy now" as it will "just get expensive later". So, you buy something you really don't want but it's the best you can find.

Speculators do not care what they buy. They go to car auctions, buy something, park it a year or two and then flip it. Their hobby is making money, not owning cars. They would just as soon buy gold or art or old TV Guides if there was money in it.

That's the really sad part.

 

Best summary I've read.

As an air-cooled 911 owner I've seen this happening...with a corresponding drop in car sightings.

They're being stored or sold.

 

or are the car shows a response to more people interested in this business?

 

Correct me if I'm way off on this but, speculators will always be hovering and cherry picking on those certain items that enthusiasts covet. Maybe its our fault, as car enthusiasts, for shedding light on special makes/models in the first place! LOL First rule of air cooled 911s is not to talk about aircooled 911s.

 

First rule of the challenge stradale is "hey bud, ain't that a 360?"


good for us.

 

First rule of the Mondial is: "Oh no, it's not fast and will never be desirable. Hey, look at that air-cooled 911 over there!"

It's a double-edged sword, but the negatives outweigh the positives for the true enthusiasts.

 

I would like to know when the meaning of these words changed?

When I was growing up , the hobbist was a "dreamer" !

The hobbist had a trans am , or some other kind of muscle car and worked tirelessly on their car, worked hard with the "dream" of getting Into a Ferrari.

Since when did Ferrari, it's dealers, or it's parts ever cater to the "hobbist" ?

Since when did people with money become "speculators" ?

I find this mix up of words insulting actually to all the new owners buying these cars at the newer prices.

 

I think the Hobbits are the ones who find it insulting.

 

A hobby is a regular activity that is done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time. Hobbies can include collecting themed items and objects, engaging in creative and artistic pursuits, playing sports, or pursuing other amusements.

I think that definition fits many of us.

 

This.

Talking about comments we've heard: there was a signature on a member's profile that was absolutely spot on, imho. Something along the lines of:

"Not driving your Ferrari and caring about future value is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she becomes more valuable to her next boyfriend".

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Lmao.

 

Agree, except on #4 and maybe #3. Most or all of us want our cars to be "matching numbers" or "correct". In a way, rising prices have been terrific for early Porsches, because it's now worth doing a proper restoration instead of the former bondo-in-the-driveway jobs. The whole reason I bought my Ferraris and Porsches was to experience what they are like to own/drive/admire. The less aftermarket trinketry, the better, IMHO.

For #3, likewise, it's now worth it to have a knowledgeable Ferrari or Porsche tech work on the car. That's a plus - we need those specialists to stay in business for the long term. Some of the most important guys I know in the field are those specialists...

 

I agree with TheMayor (and others) that this is having a negative affect on the Ferrari enthusiasts as a whole.

The reason I finally jumped in and bought my first couple of F-cars was that it was a fairly affordable venture at the time. Yes, they were both '85 models with 50k on them, but that allowed me to tinker on them and restore them somewhat to their original glory -- and ENJOY them. The biggest mistake I made was later trading them to "upgrade" to an F355 -- I should have never 'gone there'.

Now, with today's prices on that vintage of 308's and Testarossa's, it's way out of my price-point to get back into them and enjoy them again. There are simply way to many new and modern sports cars out there for the same prices with performance levels and technology that simply leaves these cars in the weeds. It's just too hard for enthusiasts like us to justify spending that sort of outlay for a vintage Ferrari that appeals to our age bracket these days.

Perhaps a 360 coupe would be worth looking into, but if their prices start heading the same direction as all the other F-cars, then it will be time to move on unfortunately.

 

Yupper. Certainly been on my mind over the last few months. Only upside, if you can call it that, is that some cars will be restored vs. trashed out.

Once I saw what was happening here, starting last year, I figured things would end up like the Dino/Daytona cars did back in the late 1980s. When's the last time anyone saw a Dino on the street? HA! In the 90s, I used to see 'em occasionally in LAX and SFO, which was a treat. No more, tho.

Since there are a lot more 328s and TRs floating around, they won't all disappear quite as much as the 1960s/early 70s cars did, but they'll all pretty much fade from view over time.

I also think this has (and will do so more in coming months) changed the nature and makeup of Fchat, as there are fewer and fewer 'real' owners of the cars, just the flippers/investors/people stuck buying at the highs. They will probably not show up much on Fchat, other than to maybe stir up buzz about the market, hoping to peddle their inventory. Previous owners aren't likely to continue to have much interest in Fchat, if they no longer own a Ferrari.

Fchat has changed quite a bit since 2002 or so, when Rob migrated from the 1st platform to the current setup. Back then, mucho more talk about the 70s/80s stuff. Now, anything in the 90s is somewhat ancient.

Fcars as nifty used, affordable Italian hot rods are pretty much gone for good...don't like it much, but that's the way it is.

 

Mayor for President!!

 

+1

The best example of number 6 IMO is the Diablo. The people who feel that they are "priced out of the Countach" due to the past 18 months of activity, think that they need to go out and get a diablo before it explodes in value. Once things go back to normal, they're going to be staring at a car in the garage that they didn't want to buy in the first place.