GT4 wheels rubbing

I have changed my 1975 GT4 wheels to 16" Superperformance wheels with Bridgestone Potenza 205/55 R16 tyres to the front and they rub at full lock. The service shop suggests using spacers? I understnd that series 2 cars had a modified wheel guard area to allow 16" wheels? Has anyone else had this problem?

 

i have, and I ended up switching to the 14 inch... would love to hear the input

 

Don't turn the wheel all the way. You'll be fine!

 

OK a little harsh on my part! If you put spacers on it will only make the problem worse. The design of the wheel well was just not intended for the 16" rim at that offset. What you need is the wheel to be more inboard, which would mean shaving off the back of the wheel mount - I would not suggest that.

Really, the 205's are just too wide. Mine rub but I like they way they look so I just try not to get full lock and live with it.... hence, my snarky remark. I have always considered hammering in the wheel well a little.

 

I would suggest if you measure the width of a 205/55R16 you will find that the width of the crown of the tyre will be dramatically wider than on a 205/70VR14 Michelin XWX

As a reference if i measure a new XWX, the tread width is 6" wide, and the shoulders of the tyres are nice and rounded, which is part of what makes the handling so progressive. a more modern tyre will have a foot print that is wider in relation to a 70's tyre because they are developed for a different type of car that relies on having complete and utter grip.

I will hazard a bet, that no car that fitted a 205/55R16 as OE was built without powersteering? (hmm i have a feeling i'm going to get shot down in flames)

I'm sorry for sounding overly purist, and hollier than thou. this sounds like an excersise of fitting a mod that then needs another mod, and then that mod leads to you needing another mod.

Do you need to soften the suspension to make up for the harsher ride that is shaking the car about? do you need to adjust the camber to deal with the more modern shaped tyres, to try to stop it snatching away from you when you corner close to the edge? do you need power steering for the heavier steering? All these things will have been carefully balanced by Ferrrari making cars out of 70's components.

Don't get me wrong i get it when it is for track use. that is all together different.

I got some big fat wheels and put them on a modified car i was using mostly on the road and did the odd race in it. not a Ferrari, a Ford Cortina but i took off my 13" wheels and put some 15" wheels with wide Michelin TB15 racing rubber on them. On the track my lap times were a bit better, the grip was astounding, but i just didn't like driving it at all. they had to go, it was justt money down the drain

My apologies.

I supppose it's up to you guys to decide, if that is just a load of flannel to sell tyres.

 

Thanks for the replies - I might have to revert back to the original 14" wheels although I do like the look of the 16" wheels.

 

Contemporary road test mention 14s rubbing.
The factory P7 16 inch option included modified inner fenders.

 

I do have to back Longstone up, on this one.

The modifcation of ANY tire upgrade needs to assess the complicating factors and the overall width as well as height of the replacement tire.

The lug bolts on 308s are a tenuous grip at best on the OEM set up.
Adding wheel spacers, no matter the motivation is a dangerous suggestion.
Some tracks forbid their use, with good reason.

It's a real indicator, that "the wheel you are fitting" has the wrong offset, or was not mating to the stock suspension.

Moving the wheel out, to avoid frame rubbing will often result in needing to "roll the fenders" to avoid it grabbing sheet metal on the outer side!!

 

I am running 16QV's on my 1975 and have had no trouble whatsoever, I did when I tried 225's on the front and it bent my lip edge a bit. You might want to check the tires you have. I am running my 3rd set of Bridgestone S-02's which were designed for the Honda 2000. The are fantastic and have an older design which I like, less BS on the sidewall and rounder like the XWX's. Tires have different profiles even for the same size. here are two of the same size wheels with different brand but same size tires. The GT4 had an option for the 16" wheels with 205/55R16 F and 225/50R16 rears so they should fit fine. Is it rubbing on the bent in under lip?

The S-02s are on the OEM wheels listed for the GT4 in the attched Factory Parts Book . The other set are the exact same size but Pirelli P700Z's........... See how much squarer the Pirellis are. I did not have problem with these rubbing. I have to admit I dnt do too much lock to lock turning except when I was working on my rack!!!!

Rob
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my tires are 205/55 Bridgestone potenza re002. Maybe this is a wider or squarer tire than the s02?

 

Rob, are those carpet tire beds for your tires??? :O
They look like work went into them, not just a scrap of carpet, either!

 

I'm running Hankook Venus V2 205/55 16 on front and 225/50 /16 on the rear of my 308 GT4 and have no rubbing issues.

 

They are just scraps but cut to size! I used to have this!

I am sure you thought of this but the superformance wheels look the same unlike the QV wheels, where the rear on has no lip. Is it possible that you have the rears mounted on front? I am only saying becuase I have done stuff way dumber than that. Also my car came with a 6.5 star wheel spare and it was on the right rear, when I bought the car. I found the correct 7.5x14 in the front spare tire compartment. The owner said he never noticed. Things like this can happen. Since you thought of spacers, I am assuming they must be rubbing on the inside which is weird? I know many here have the same repro wheel set up and have never heard of them rubbing. If the rear ones got on the front even with the 205s I could see how they might rub, but on the outside. I am not an expert just adding all this stuff from my experience.

Where again are the rubbing?

Can you take some pictures?

Check the wheels, should 7x16 front 8x16 rear

Hope we can get you sorted out!

Rob
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The car is in the shop at the moment but will do all of the above checks when I get it back hopefully a the end of the week. The tires and wheels were fitted at a tire retailer so hopefully he knew what he was doing.

 

Alswedge this is a pic of my front wheel. These are 16x7 Superformance wheels with 9 year old oem Konis/springs. At max steering input no rubbing. Has your suspension been modified?
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My car is a 1975 model - I understand that the inner wheel arches are modified in later cars once 16" wheels were offered as an option.

 

Al,

I dont think that is correct. Notwithstanding I and many others have the same wheels and tires and no problems. Like I said it it was going to rub it would be on the outer side. I cant see it rubbing on the inside unless the wheels are on wrong or the rack was changed???

Rob
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Personally i think the 14" XWX looks fabulous. However of course that just sounds like a sales pitch

Currently the date code we have on the shelf is 2015 (ie 20th week of 2015)

 

I think the offset on my BBS's are just off. I love they way they look in the front. However in the rear they are too far in. My front's rub the front of the inner fender, but only on full lock. Eventually, I would rather alter the inner fender. At least I can just change the lips and barrels on the wheels to get the right set up.

 

I agree with Dougal the XWX are fantastic but every Ferrari owner should hve AT LEAST 2 sets of wheels!

 

I have got the car back now and checked the wheels / tyres - The 7" are definitely on the front and 8" on rear. Front tyres are 205/55 and rears are 255/50. I notice that the wheel arch has been bent by the tyres but don't think that this is from the constant rubbing that I hear at full lock. I think that the tyres may be to square so will investigate the S02 tyre and see if that is a better fit - otherwise its back to the 14" wheels and Michelin tyres.
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I am not a GT4 owner (yet, recently sold my 246 GT) but would worry about how tires with more grip will impact all of your suspension components.

For example, will more grip result in your springs compressing all the way under hard cornering and create push in the front or worse still, cause your back end to step out?

Are the bushings, hardware and suspension members over engineered sufficiently to handle more grip without failing?

Have you crack checked the wheels and suspension arms before fitting wider tires to make sure you aren't currently driving on a component that is compromised?

Safety first. Enjoy your fantastic cars.

Keith

 

Actually this upgrade is perfect for this car as it was a factory option on the series 2 cars in Europe. When going to larger wheel and or slicks for racing the weakest link seems to be the half shafts from my experience.

 

Yep, broken half shafts are messy.

Cheers,

Keith

 

Perfect solution for that problem;

Ferrari 328 Uprated Stub Axles - WalkerSport - Ferrari Specialists