Sounds to me like we've never had a problem, then. There's rarely name calling or abuse, there's just constant banter/discussion/argument about Lewis Hamilton between his blinkered fanbois, who love him and have the belief that one can only love him totally or hate him completely, and everyone else. You can say what you like, but this has NOT happened before with other drivers. This is endless and everywhere. Nevertheless, I STILL don't have a problem with it.
Not quite - aside from the Hamilton ultimate fanboys and everyone else, there is a group that actually DOES hate Hamilton with a vengeance and takes the full opposite perspective and extreme approach to Hamilton discussions as toil and kraftwerk. It's not just the Hamilton lovers causing this problem - the Hamilton haters are nearly as responsible, if not equally responsible. Hamilton fans should be able to participate in the discussions here - but just as there are excessively rabid Hamilton fans, there are equally excessively rabid Hamilton haters who jump on any reasonable praise of Hamilton, often before toil or kraftwerk show up in a thread. It's that combination of the two extremes that creates this issue. Some will try to make the excuse that they only react that way or only hate Hamilton because of the extreme fanaticism of toil and kraftwerk... I don't buy that. The extreme over-reactions occur on both sides of that line.
Name one? I don't recall seeing anyone who really hates him, except maybe ridiculing him as an opposing view to the fanbois' BS.
It is a sad indictment of the f1 section that those who purportedly claim to love f1 give the most attention to threads that centre around my removal. You all claim to be true f1 enthusiasts and say that I am ruining a positive forum experience yet this thread has received ten times the activity of the current active threads on actual f1 related material. There is toil the 'myth' and then toil the reality. Most of what surrounds me is just noise. My posts are a lot less than they were and are hardly radical. In fact this is my longest post in awhile. What is more of a nuisance is people who devote pages and pages writing stuff I apparently believe or think and attributing ideas to me that aren't even mine. I can literally not post for 4-5 pages and when I log back in all 5 of the pages are talking about me and what I think and about kraftwerk and whatever Hamilton fan that dares even post on this forum. Quite frankly this obsession with me is a little creepy. Take mauluf for example... Of his last 50 posts nearly HALF have either included my name or been about me. He only has 400 posts, half being since I joined and most of them are about me. If this were real life I would have filed a restraining order long ago. And don't think I'm flattering myself here...he is literally infatuated with me. Is stalking another member a ban able offence? When his entire contribution to the f1 section is based on following another member doesn't that start to get a little creepy? What about PSK? He calls Lewis Hamilton "toil" just so he can say my name. He's made multiple threads about me even when I haven't done anything wrong. He is apparently even moving to my country if one of his recent posts are to be believed... When bas tries to make excuses for kimi sliding out and taking out alonso no one bats an eyelid. But if I say Lewis drove a good race despite two mistakes it's looked on as a travesty and ten people decide to quote me. No matter what people think I would much prefer being able to post in peace. People here just hate Lewis despite what they May say to the contrary. Even his new fans that have 30 posts on the forum get bullied off... Do you even know what freedom of speech is? Here's a tip... Click the "post reply button" then type whatever you want and hit the "submit reply" button - Instead of talking about me all the time... What is much worse is people like you have created a culture here that it is politically correct to hate on my every post regardless of content.
Since the moderators cannot or will not ban alleged trolls from this forum, I think the best solution is to put them on ignore. Engaging in conversation with trolls just encourages them to carry on. Nobody can convince them to stop; they are narcisic characters. They are basically individuals who thrive on aggravating others. Trools feed on audience; if they are ignored, their posts become meaningless. So, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS !!!
understood You miss the point entirely. You imply that simplistic thinking of toil and Kraftwerk and the other twins: If you are not for Hamilton then you are against him or a butthurt lover of another driver. You are as wrong as they are. No one has a problem with someone enjoying a driver or disliking or even hating another one. That's all fine. Just don't go on a mission to convince the board of your view. Nonsense. I think Hamilton is one of the fastest drivers out there on today's grid. Again you sound like toil and Kraftwerk. I am a Hamilton hater in their twisted world view because I don't state every post that Hamilton is the best that ever was. I know sufficient people here that have a decent level of hatred against some drivers. They are open about it but they let you move on with your own views and don't pollute the entire board with their religion. That is tolerance towards other views. Something certain people here do not have. You are with them or you are against them. WHAT? Fair enough, I said it was a browse at random through the history to shed light where we come from as the F-Chat. We come from that nasty history I have shown. It was our mutual effort as the community to get toil to the levels he is on today. We did that on our own because of inaction of the mods. You should acknowledge that part. accepted and agreed upon. Sure, let's give it ago.
I believe if you're doing it for "the sole purpose of starting a dispute", then I guess so. I don't think "disputes" are bannable per-se - We've had many of those over the years after all! It's the "intent" that makes the difference I feel. Cheers, Ian EDIT, but then I'm not a mod.....
Going to be hard to prove then. Though, my opinion is, for someone to sign up on a Ferrari forum, appear not to be interested in anything Ferrari related, constantly pick arguments with anyone not constantly praising Lord Elton, a reasonable case could be made. Like I said earlier in the thread, pre-Toil, a difference of opinion still happened but very rarely escalated (and even if it did, it was never really a problem). That's all it does these days because we have Toil. Toil has admitted to atleast baiting Aircon and myself, and offense I believe he hasn't been banned for despite it being reported (as I have on other occasions for obvious troll like behavior but never resulted in a ban. Like Ian, I do think use the report button is snitch like, and I've only ever used it on Toil I believe). I searched very briefly through some posts just now to check if he contributes to the forum besides the F1 bits, and immediately found him insulting the entire continent of Australia (he was posting in the OZ F1 forum, almost certainly because he didn't get the desired reaction in this section). Toil is quite simply a cancer in the F1 section. The mods are the doctors who have a way to get rid of it but through a non legal treatment. Every now and then I think the mods should channel their inner Dr House, send Dr Cuddy to do something to send her on the wrong path, and permanently get rid of the cancer causing the damage.
I don't see what the big deal is. Toil loves Hamilton as much as many of you love Fernando or Ferrari. He's an ardent defender of his F1 Hero. No harm in that. I myself am not that emotionally invested in people I don't know and don't really care one way or the other when someone challenges me or basically calls me "ignorant" because for instance because I don't think Alonso is the most talented driver. The reality is just about every single thing we write is opinion and typically always comes down to Ford vs. Chevy style debate with neither side giving an inch nor ever willing to concede their point of view.. or at least admit it openly. But who cares? Toil says one thing and there's the next 10 pages of everyone talking about it. I don't agree with him a lot of the times... but that's okay. I don't need to go on a diatribe about it. I've been challenged pretty hard here a few times. No big deal... I understand that people take participating in forums far more seriously than I do. I like Seb for instance, but I don't know him and he doesn't know me. He's not going to ever write me a letter expressing his disappointment that I didn't stick up for or rebut the things people have chastised me about concerning my commentary about him. Let's just move on.
Doesn't have to be proven. Solely up to moderator/admin discretion; this is no court of law. There are five of us moderating this section and we'll make the call as we see it - the same as we've been doing for over a decade in all of the other F-Chat forums. Toil came on the scene slinging insults and immediately garnered a reputation for being a rotten apple. He changed his style of interaction at some point last year, but apparently it was too late. As a result, any statement of his contrarian viewpoint is pounced on and the issue escalates, as you've pointed out. It takes more than one person to escalate disagreements and derail threads. Thank you. And Aircon has admitted to baiting others here as well. Can't ban all of the offenders from both sides of the Hamilton aisle, so like I said, clean slate going forward.
SEE FORUM ANNOUNCEMENT HERE: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/f1/495700-enforcement-rules-f1-forum.html And so, I think that giving everyone a chance to air out their various issues and grievances here without hijacking a legitimate F1-related thread has been a worthwhile exercise, and I suspect that we will see very few, if any, exchanges of personal attacks and insults going forward. Contrary to what some have posted, I also believe that any trolling issue will be resolved quickly. As I mentioned before, we are starting with a clean slate for all except for the two users who are currently away on temporary bans. To make it clear, the same adult behavior and respect for fellow users is expected here as in the other F-Chat forums and the standard forum rules of conduct apply. Enforcement of these rules, however, will be a bit different here until the moderators feel that harmony in the F1 forum has been restored. Going forward, and until further notice, the rules in this forum will be enforced as follows: - There will be no further warnings. This thread serves as a first and final warning to all. - 1st offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: 1 month ban from F-Chat. - 2nd offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: 3 month ban from F-Chat. - 3rd offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: permanent ban from F1 forum. - Attack on moderator(s) who are working to implement these rules and clean up the F1 forum: Moderator discretion, up to and including permanent ban from either F1 forum or F-Chat as a whole. Thread closed.
