New Dino announced?

By Dino standards the Alfa's not a light car. Given today's laws it couldn't be. But it is a different class of car from the 458.
If you can believe what Marchione is saying to the press the new Dino will be priced at 458 levels raising the price classes of the V8 and V12 models.

 

I've been wondering about this too - whether it's possible, given the existing safety regulations, to design a light and flowing shape and structure like the 246/308/328 that could meet current standards. Maybe side impact requirements maybe are the biggest factor in this.

 

Yes, especially the door side air inlets and the hoods louvers.

 

Montezemolo doesn't have a MBA.

 

Just hope they have seance enough to offer a manual

Can you guys tell the difference in wheel base - I can't
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I'd almost like to see them eschew really high horsepower in return for awesome vehicle handling / dynamics (not that F-Cars aren't already awesome). 500HP is a nice target, but I see the Dino less as a rip-snorting super car, more a driver's car like the Subaru BRZ (albeit with much more HP).

Small, light, naturally aspirated V6, manual transmission...that would be my wish.

 

The different perspectives is deceptive, therefore I dare to say there isn't a difference in the wheel base.

 

+1. Which is exactly why I'll order the new Porsche Boxster Spyder.

Then let's see if in 5 years a Dino is available...so I could switch back to a Prancing Horse. Would be nice though.

 

Anyone hoping for a lower horsepower Ferrari with three-pedal gearbox, mechanical steering, and analog gauges in five years.... should probably start saving up for a 1972 Dino this month.

 

Yeah, unlikely. But that does sound awesome though. Shame we'll probably never see that again.


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Agreed. Which is why I will probably never buy another new sports car in my lifetime.

 

Porsche is finding it profitable to keep manual transmission cars in their lineup and the new Spyder makes a nice companion to the GT4. 0-60 in reality will look like 4 secs flat, so faster than an F430 F1...

No reason Ferrari can't or won't compete in that space as the concept keeps getting proven.

 

That mule could be just testing engine and tranny, I wouldn't count on the rest of it.

 

Yeah no way Ferrari will come out with something like that. But it would be nice if it's something lower cost, and even lighter than the by then running V8 series. That would already do it for me.

 

They could do it and if they did should create an amueture race series around it.

 

I've yet to see recent sales stats, but the Cayman has traditionally been Porsche's slowest selling vehicle by a large margin. At one point it was fewer than 100 cars a month in North America (prior to the 981 launch). I don't know if the GT4 is profitable, or simply a niche project funded by the mega-successful Cayenne/Macan. I think it might be... Porsche can afford to do a low volume sports car through component sharing, because the rest of the lineup subsidizes it via engineering trickle-down and raw profit.

The economics of the lineup at Porsche (part of the VW empire) are a lot different than those of an independent company trying to turn a profit. I think the Dino strategy might have been more doable under the Fiat-Chrysler roof.

Frankly Lamborghini (Audi) could do it much more easily than Ferrari could...

 

Exactly

 

If MacLaren can have multiple cars of one platform why can't Ferrari

 

Its different. Ferrari could but they wouldn't. Ferrari wouldn't do the kind of platform sharing McLaren does. Also McLaren just showed a tiny profit last reporting period. Ferrari I think made a half a billion dollar profit last year. As they are going public they will want to preserve and if possible enlarge the margins.

In addition to the excellent points made about Porsche as a company, they also have a different clientele and a much lower price point. They might accept a higher % depreciation but its a lower total dollar amount depreciation.

I am convinced one of the things that helped move Ferrari away from stick was the fact that the first time buyers were worried more about depreciation than about driving thrills and thus opted for the automated transmissions as they were convinced this would be more in demand by the first wave of secondary buyers.

 

GT4 is a wait list product (I had allocation but withdrew and bought a decidedly much higher-tech car from "the dark side -- neither Porsche or Ferrari"). Demand is strong enough that people are willing to pay for allocations. Dealer told me 600 is production plan (N. America?). They could have sold twice that, easily.

Porsche doesn't really share platforms aside from Cayenne and upcoming sharing between Panamera and Bentley.

Parts sharing will happen over time, sure, but that isn't the current approach in the sports car side. The GT-4 and Spyder aren't much different from Ferrari using current platforms and just simplifying some of the tech elements for its own old school cars. The manual vs. DCT substitution will not make one car profitable and sink the other, particularly if there is demand. Porsche realized this and decided to test the waters by addressing the market and were likely surprised by the success. I would be shocked if Porsche did away with continuing to address the market.

Ferrari is leaving money on the table if they do nothing to address demand. They could test the waters by offering a run of manual cars and see how oversubscribed it is. The reason they (and Porsche) largely ceased manual was because so few demanded it when lined up against PDK. In the right context, however, Ferrari might be able to satisfy a need for more volume as it becomes independent (and pressured by investors for growth, growth, growth) and still keep the product both exclusive, while also catering to the part of the enthusiast segment that still seeks a manual.

 

Porsche and Ferrari clients overlap, a lot. Even for new cars. The difference is that the Porsche buyer base is a bit broader (obviously) and it now caters to a broader set of products for the same customer. The Porsche buyer base is larger, but a huge chunk of the Ferrari buyer base is also overlapping as a Porsche buyer. If Porsche decides to add a mid engined sports car at a higher price point (say turbo pricing, so ~$200k) that will likely pull a lot of customers from Ferrari.

Your third point on Ferrari moving away from stick actually suggests, very, very strongly, that Ferrari might re-enter the market as that worry (no ongoing demand for stick) is not only no longer present, but has been turned on its head. If that was part of the demand equation before, it clearly no longer is. It would be worth it for Ferrari to test the waters again with a manual car and see how it fares.

 

Lamborghini has no need to do so because Audi and the R8 fill a next tier down from their Gallardo / Hurracan tier.

Ferrari, as an independent company, will seek growth. Part of growth will come from expanding product line. The natural progression is slightly down, and adding a manual in a slightly cheaper version of its mid engine series will allow them to capitalize on huge brand appeal and some (apparent) resurgent interest in stick shift sports cars.

I think Ferrari actually has more reasons to do this to get more mileage out of its platforms. In fact, some people on this site talk about not wanting to buy new Ferraris. Ferrari might have a market that doesn't even require much a price point reduction and can still generate the volume and even more profit.

We shall see, could be interesting.

 

Except Ferrari already conducted real world tests on this, the 355/360/F430, for example, and stats don't show much uptake for three-pedal manuals when they are offered. We saw maybe 10 percent (?) uptake on the F430, and maybe a dozen or so 599 GTBs ordered that way. How many 612s? If anything, orders for three-pedal manuals seem to have declined from the 355 years to the F430.

For the Boxster-Cayman, it's similar. The Porsche dealer in Carlsbad (San Diego) actually looked surprised when I asked about ordering a non-PDK Cayman. Both of those cars have always been available with both gearbox options, so whatever demand there is would have played out by now. When checks are being written, they don't get a lot of interest from customers.

If the GT4 were available with a PDK box, I suspect most of them would go out the door that way. Many buyers want the extra performance.

All of which is a long way of saying that what you read on car chat boards and what happens in showrooms are two different worlds. (I work with analytics guys and economists all day, which tamps down my "everyone wants carbs and a stick" whims...)

If Ferrari relaunches the Dino line, they're going to need a compelling package, not just a retro gearbox, to get the volume needed to succeed. Plus, it will be competing with a lot of lightly used 458 coupes as those depreciate into the mid/high $100K range. A CPO 458 with low mileage is a seriously attractive option for a car that will get only occasional use anyway. I hope Sergio and team think this one through.

 

I agree. Although VW-Audi has a lot of overlap these days, with the 911, R8, and Huaracan, especially when the top of the range R8 and 911 are $200K cars. That's a happy problem to have, I suppose.

 

I've seen it mentioned here that dealers were stocking mostly F1 cars and people wanting a 3 pedal car could special order it and wait 6 months to a year.

Is that what actually happened? I don't know, but it's been mentioned by several people and I could see how that would greatly reduce the amount of 3 pedal cars.

Still, even if the demand is low compared to F1, is it really too much to ask to have 2 transmission choices? If it was done before it could still be done.