Official Countach Value Thread

Joes labor of love point, is spot on, (unless you are a dealer)who knows where this is going, enjoy it for all the right reasons, if it ever becomes a pain and annoyance, get out, you bought the wrong car.

 

I heard or read (I don't remember where) that dealers are not always thrilled when an exotic 'sells' on ebay. You have to take the car off of the market, give the 'buyer' time to send in a deposit, wait on the mail, explain to potential buyers the car may have been sold, and give additional time for the promised check to arrive. The dealer also claimed ebay was a good advertising option to list your inventory.

I sold the same car on ebay three times within approximately two months. I even had a wife thrown under a bus during the sale. Apparently, the wife forgot to mail the payment. ...but it has now been corrected...

You may have to wait a while - with or without a deposit. I also had to block a repeat 'buyer' for the same car, in the last 30 minutes of a re-listed auction. The 'buyer' wanted to again win the same car he had already won just three weeks before.

 

So true in every way. No matter if you are a dealer or private seller, it is a mine field. When I hear anyone say, "Just throw it up on ebay" I stop them in their tracks! If you want to use an auction venue to potentially gain the most a market has to offer then use a physical auction. One alternative that is growing in popularity is B.A.T. Bring A Trailer. Their auction platform looks more credible. I have no association with them by the way. When I use ebay I only list with a Buy-It-Now. I quit using the auction platform for the above reasons. For anything.

 

is your car FI?
if FI i believe you should have usa manual

if is carburated you should have a euro version

 

Thank you.

 

Truth.

Here is a USA car that now lives in Switzerland, and if you review the Annivesario thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-cats-exotics/394041-countach-25th-anniversario.html, Ive posted cars from the USA that now live on most other continents. There is a famous yellow one that lives in Moscow, Russia.

Having said all that, if the Euro goes much lower, they'll eventually start coming back. You'll have seen this kind of ebb-and-flow of cars due to currency fluctuations with lots of makes & models over the years if you've been watching long enough.
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Given the recent market results via auction, plus some private treaty sales, I'd say its time for a meaningful updated values list.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears as though values have hit a standstill if not declined?

 

I think the values are flat. Check out Hagarty's online price guide. Seems all is the same even after Monterey. But, perceptions can be funny, and because auction houses cranked up their estimate ranges, even low estimates were much higher than they should have been. So....the perception is that prices are dropping. But, wait a minute.....the low estimates went way up, but the prices didn't go up to meet them. That does not indicate the market has dropped, just that the auction houses thought prices were going to keep zooming up and they didn't!

Case in point: LP400 in the Hagarty price guide has an average value of ~$1.3 million. About a year and a half ago one sold for about that at Bonhams in CT. Then Sports Car Market has a cover story about the LP400 and concluded that the price should stick and be flat for a while. Then 2014 Monterey at Gooding, a freak LP400 sale of ~$1.8 million for a car in rough condition got everyone worked up. That was an anomaly imo, as an original owner wanted his car back. Last week, the LP400 sold for ~$1.3 million. So......no price drop. Remove the fluke sale, and the LP400 market is flat for about a year and a half. FLAT...not down. This case example has been repeated with many Lambos.

Having said all that, I think LP400 will equal Miura SV prices eventually. Both equally shocking, and both sent similar shock waves through the car world when introduced. Similar rarity. One replaced the other. One a better performer, the other more pretty, but the other more otherworldly looking. Both car will eventually be similary priced imo. Maybe in 10 year...who knows. That is my bet and I'm putting my $ where my mouth is.

 

What about project/basket cars? I don't see them flat or down by any means.

 

Everyone will have to draw their own conclusions.

For example, the 25ths hammer or high-bid numbers for the weekend were: for $310k, $385k, $270k, $215k.

Compare the average number ($295k) with prices achieved the last 6 mos.

 

The right car with all the right ingrediences, will always bring the top $ at auctions, being there is at least (funny) 2 persons in the room with the same emotional have to have this car attitudē. It has to push all the right buttons, be THAT car, case in point Miura s wich set a record, this is imho the only time ãny car will bring dream nmbrs, most other bidders are merely car dealers looking for a quick flip, and will always bid on the safe side, to bad Roys car was black on black wich is THE worst anti pop color ever on a Countach, makes the car look small and insignificänt, add the horrible us bumpers, and there it is ,the worst combo on an auction stage , history was perfect , but it had no stage presence, IMHO , Tahiti blue on white interior,and a good euro bumper conversion , his car would have brought another 100$ MHO FWIW

 

On the flip side, if you add in the commissions, what someone was actually willing to pay, you get a different number. $324,500

 

Agreed, but relative to 6 mos ago these are new lows, either way.

 

The 215k is the problem out of the 4. Discount that it you have an even greater number, not that 4 cars are the entire market one way or another. So why do auction houses show what the top bid was & not include the actual number? It seems like the number would show better for the auction house. From my vantage point, I look at the numbers and don't feel like it got any easier to buy a Countach.

 

If there is one thing I have learned it is that people put too much emphasis on auction results, frankly because it is the only public sales comps in the market. However, each car must be taken on its own merit and that can greatly vary the value range. Many cars that I've been excited to bid on didn't even pass threshold as a car I'd own at any price upon inspection. You must know the cars to know the true numbers, otherwise they are nothing more than numbers. Without an expert inspection and proper due diligence, the perspective can vary greatly as well.

 

I don't recommend using high bid in any calculation of the value of a vehicle. Auction houses are allowed to bid just short of the reserve without anyone biding on the car. So anything less than a sale means nothing. All you can conclude was there were no buyers in the room at the reserve price for that car.

Cheers Jim

 

This is very true, particularly with old Lamborghinis!

 

I was present at just about every Lambo Auction at every house this past week. I was of course dis-appointed in my 88 car. All said and done, I cleared approx $8k on it, the house almost $40K..but such is life. I did speak with all 3 bidders, the two that dropped out at 300K and then 330K as well as the winner at $335lK. ALL OF them thought the car was "aftermarket" FUGLY bumpers put on by US Dealers once the car arrived in the states for DOT reasons. NONE of them KNEW that it actually was applied at the factory. For this reasons their bids were lower. SO we learn that it appears the FUGLY bumpers must go to get a better price for your car.

All in all, the strong price cars that DID sell, the 89 Red at $385K PLUS 10% fees as well as the ONES that did not sell, RESERVES not met in the 400k and above, prove one thing....the prices ARE NOT down as others suggest, just the opposite, they are strong and holding as the real owners of these cars KNOW what they are really worth and are NOT letting them go until they get the correct value paid for them.

IMO, you will be very hard pressed to locate any decent Countach of ANY variant trading at anything under $325K in the next 6 months. The same with the Diablo market, is showed well and strong this last week..it was the SINGLE cause for the sale of my 97 1/2 Yellow Roadster, my 99 Blue Roadster and my 01 Yellow 6.0 ALL to buyers that were present in Monterey and quickly snapped up my cars as they saw were the market is heading...I am working with several others on my last Diablo 6.0 I have in stock as well as my 89 Anniversary cars...I dont really expect either to be with me much longer...but time will tell.

FYI, I bought the low mile Black 89 for $297K all in. I also bought what is to date the highest ever paid for a Lamborghini Islero. I bought the Red one at R/M Saturday night with fees all in at $401K..with ONLY 100 S cars ever made like this, I think its got no where else to go but up...Plus I just think the car is stunning and bad ass.

SO my take...all is well and the on ward march is here to stay...I am not worried nor having any fire sale soon...

 

I should add...that each will take from this last week as they see it...BUT if you are one of them that looks, as some would have you believe that the sky is falling and you will be back on Welfare and food stamps because your Countach or ANY pre 2004 Lamborghini you own is dropping by 60% estimates....

well you have a few things you can do

1) You can just wait and see and enjoy your toy

2) List it for sale yourself, take on all the tire kickers, all the PPI'S, all the "I can pay next week, take a deposit"....

3) you can send it to an up coming auction, and get paid what it hammers for LESS the houses take of approx 6 to 10% (depends on the house)...wait 21 to 28 days to get paid..and thats IF it sells

4) You can do a "Private sale" with a "broker"...much like a Auction House, they take 6% from BOTH SIDES...and IF IT Sells, you get paid..and keep in mind...6% of $50K is only $3k..so if you can get it sold QUICKLY at 300K instead of 350K...talk your client into the prices have "dropped..bla bla bla bla stuff...the only person hurt is you..loosing $50K plus..but the broker, just like the Auction House, comes out smelling great..ONLY a $3K down and STILL pockets $18K FROM BOTH sides...

5) OR you can contact me, agree on a price and get PAID via wired funds the following business day. Simple and you dont wait for ever to get paid...and history shows, you will end up with approx the same after you deduct ALL THE FEE'S from you other options..

6) Just laugh at all of this and don't care, because you don't need the funds and are just having fun with life...screw it all and let your kids worry about it after your gone...after all, you have earned it, its yours!!

 

As we all know, numbers and statistics can be shaded and bent to support the opinion of the statistician.

I am wondering why Joe is including no-sale numbers like 215K and not including the fee/premium, effectively shading the numbers to look lower. I'm sure we've all seen owners twisting the facts here and there to make the numbers look higher....but why would a broker want them to look lower? Just a friendly critique, not trying to ruffle any feathers. Joe?

Will someone just write a list of sale amounts with car year/model and condition for the last 6 months and we can be done with all the guessing games and have some solid numbers?

 

Thanks Roy ,for making a conclusive final comment on the Bumper war ,

 

Agree. This was a great data point.

 

Roy -

#6 !

 

Joe WONT answer you with the obvious, so let me answer fr him..

I figured it is pretty east to see why a "Broker" ..."talks values down".

A "Broker" ONLY makes money when he has inventory to trade/sell, or in another words, a customer comes to him to move car along. So IF a BROKER talks the price down a bit, just enough to get some to "jump ship" and move on due to his "expert" suggestion and his "off base" current sales figures averaged DOWN against NO SALE cars...well he still makes his money and keeps the flow of trades and sells going....pretty simple business 101.

The thing I always wonder about, is what about all the "Brokers" customers that drank the cool aid last year and paid "top dollar" and "New world record prices". If I was one of those, I sure as HELL would not be happy with the constant tear down and belittling of a car that was sold to me with the "Champion" comments of how great it was, an investment etc etc...AND now advised how they DROP by over 60%, (of course a wrong math equation).

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM