Many speak of Andretti...but i would easily put Ickx ahead....
Jacky Ickx didn't make the same impact in F1 than Mario, who won a title. Ickx missed it the year Rindt was crowned, One could say that, for either of them, their last few years in F1 weren't very glorious though: Mario at Alfa, Jacky at Ensign, Ligier ... The Belgian had an impressive career in endurance, whilst Mario did Indy racing for many years. But Mario had a great personality, better than Ickx (who I used to know, BTW). But that was at the time when drivers were multi-talented, and could do several races in different categories during the same weekend! Imagine that now. People get all exited when Hulkenberg does Le Mans in the middle of the F1 season. Before, it was common ...
WEll, Ickx won in f.1, could have easily been w.c if Ferrari had a more reliable car (he had talent to spare), won lemans 6 times, was chmapion, won the Paris dakar, was one of the best drivers in the rain, one of the best in the ring.....to me he's on top of Mario......now that i think of it, He and Mario were probably the best duo to ever drive a sportscar!!!
Hey, We need just three more votes and then lock it I feel.... Come on guys - There's gotta be 3 more folks who haven't voted yet! Cheers, Ian
I haven't voted.....I'd love to help, but I'm just not knowledgeable enough about F1 history to have an informed opinion. There's just no point pretending otherwise.
There is no doubt that Jacky Ickx was one of greatest all-round drivers of his era. He won in F2, F1, GT, Touring cars, Sport cars, rally, etc... I knew him when he was racing Touring cars at the begining, before Ken Tyrrell called him to race in F2 alongside Jackie Stewart. People may not know it, but Ickx got the invitation to join Ferrari after Stewart turned it down! Who says that the attraction to race at Ferrari is irresistible? Stewart elected to stay at Tyrrell and won 3 titles whilst Ickx never did; the Scuderia was truly shambolic in those days. There is no doubt in my mind that Ickx would have been champion had the roles been reversed (Stewart accepting the offer from the Commendatore , and Ickx doing F1 with Tyrrell). Also initially team mates, Ickx and Stewart became opponent on the issue of safety. Stewart leading a boycott of Spa where he had an accident led to much resentment from Ickx, defending his national circuit.
I knew about Stewart invitation from Ferrari, as you said, if it was the other way around, It would have been Ickx to pick those titles and Stewart left with nothing...there is no doubt Stewart was more comited to the sport than Ickx, but in terms of speed and raw talent i would probably bet on Ickx.
In the wet, for sure! And he was fabulous in sports cars. But ahead of JYS? Not so sure about that one..... JYS just "looked" slow - until you saw his times! Cheers, Ian
...Your maybe right...i never saw them back in the day, so i can't be sure....I just know they were both very special drivers....
I always liked Jacky Ickx, more so than Stewart (Likely due to his driving for Ferrari in F1 and Sports cars). To a certain extent they were a bit like the Prost and Senna of their era, one the calculating, safety conscious and smooth driver, the other a more passionate "racer" who went fast in most anything, safety be damned. I remember the photos of Ickx running across the track at Jarama in 70 with his overalls on fire after bring hit by Jackie Oliver in the BRM. Red Flag....What red Flag? He was put out and the burning Ferrari conveniently rolled across the track so the marshals could finish putting it out. Ickx finished WDC runner up in both 69 to Stewart and in 70 to Rindt. The biggest problem that Ickx seemed to have was that although he drove for some good teams, it was always about two or three years before they had success. He debuted for Ken Tyrrell with the Matra, but had moved on to Ferrari before they had success (with Stewart). He was with Ferrari through a bleak period and moved on to Lotus just before Ferrari turned it around with Lauda. He was with Lotus before moving on to Frank Williams and Walter Wolf while Lotus and Andretti went on to WDC. He went to Ensign before Williams became successful with Jones and he finally finished with Ligier. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I always look at the drivers without any atachment to their nº of victories or titles...i know many here laugh when i mention Alesi, but the truth is i can put on display dozens of races where he bested names like (Senna, Prost, Mansell, Shumacher, Hakkinen with inferior machinery)....i have no doubt at all that if he was in williams instead of Hill, Shumacher would have had 2 titles less.....and if he had remained with Ferrari, and had equal treatment with Michael (wich we all know would be impossible), it would have been a hell of a fight, worthy of Senna vs Prost.....Alonso, Elton ???? they aren't even near Jean's talent.
Always a fan of Alesi but he invariably lost out on "musical chairs", landing at the right team at the wrong time. Based on personal observation during my viewing lifetime, there have only been two drivers who were always a threat to podium or win in whatever car they were driving: Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher. For me, that is the hallmark of greatness. It was not the car but the driver.
+1 to all. I'd add Jimmy to those two. He could drive *anything* quickly. Never saw Fangio - someone who seemed gifted at going to the right team at the right time, but his records suggest he's right there no matter. Seems we're "almost" in agreement on those four guys. Beyond them, the debate heats up!..... Seems a few votes are still trickling in, so we'll leave it open for now. Cheers, Ian
Yap, hope Gilles can pick up a few more votes and overtake the professor, as he would easily have done on the track.....
Ferrari was interested in hiring a British driver, having lost Surtees earlier on., and Stewart was on his shortlist. But Stewart made a bad impression by turning up for the meeting at Marenello accompanied by his lawyer, and the meeting was apparently frosty. Later, Enzo Ferrari told his entourage: "Coming with an attorney... Did he think he was coming to buy the team?"
