pros and cons of an italian car.

I have been in this business for nearly 40 years and I do not have a clue what this repair will cost. I am pretty impressed that you do.

Several of my prior posts refer to his operational costs directly. If you bring a car to someone who replaces parts at inflated prices until it works again it tends to get expensive. If on the other hand you get proper routine service performed and observe and act upon warning signs the cost is quite reasonable.



On the other hand for those that want to own an exotic car whose new price put it high up in the luxury goods category and want Toyota Tercel operating costs are just unrealistic and doomed for dissatisfaction.



The point is, your assumptions are wrong, several here with a great deal of real world knowledge on the subject are trying to tell you that but yet somehow we are wrong. Buy a Buick.

 

@bigchief if you're scared about owning cost, potential bumps in the road etc.. then maybe an F car is not for you. Most times these cars are fine but anything can break down. Proper maintenance, upkeep is key.. sometimes it can be just plain bad luck.. But u gotta be prepared to pay.. if u wanna play

 

There are those talk, and those who do. Not everyone can own a Ferrari.. not everyone should own a Ferrari. There is a risk of anything breaking on an expensive car. You deal with it. If you're not in a place to smile at the curvaceous lovely in your garage and write the check to fix it.. you shouldn't be in the car. One of the biggest mistakes people make with Ferrari's and Porsche's is they assume because the car is now 25% the price new.. that service and parts prices should also be that discount. They're often not. Especially as parts become unobtainum. The Ferrari drivers IMHO that "fear it" are ones that "need it to retain its value" when they sell it -or- can't afford to fix it if it breaks. Neither IMHO should have bought the car in the first place.

The funny thing is.. my 360 is actually been fairly reliable and not the money pit that many non-owners like to imagine. Of course.. even if it was.. I'd never be caught dead in a Mercedes even if I was an old grey haired real estate developer with a paunch (wait is that a cliche?).

 

Well said! +1!

It goes for any luxury or expensive item/goods that people buy....Things shouldn't be based on money.... The question of "How much?" can often be "Too much"....

BTW, I've got an old Mercedes E class as one of the DD's! LOL

Cheers
FN.

 

There are lots of sounds if you really listen...

Could be that...

He is uncomfortable with queries to his mechanic about specifics that could make useful dialog in here for people like you on the fence, or those of us who are curious about things. "The sensor?" "The sensor!" Which sensor is more than a couple hours of labor plus cost of part? I would want to know myself but that is just me. That 997 is going to have sensors made by the same company(ies) too! Maybe even more of them! ;-)

Or he just doesn't have time or inclination to understand the issues, a lot of people are busy or aren't all that curious about things.

Who recoups the full value of a car upon resale? Think depreciating asset and you are starting to get it.

He could have bought a lift and done his own work and had enough left over to not be phased by this mysto-sensor repair that requires an engine-out to access. lol

If you need a team to keep you in the seat given your operational budget, you have to know how to select the right team.

You are not passionate about your car IMO.

 

"The Internets" are a terrible place to gauge the reliability of *any* vehicle.
How many posts do you see from folks saying "wow, I drove my Modena/CS/430/Spyder today and it drove great. No problems"? Not very many!
Pop over to the M5/6 forums. Reading there you'd think every engine is on the verge of hydro locking because BMW don't fit screen filters to the injectors. Other than that forum I know of exactly 0 people who have had issues (I'm a nationally accredited BMWCCA HPDE Instructor Mentor).

"The Internets" are a great place to educate yourself on the potential benefits and pitfalls of specific vehicles. Ferrari's, when they go wrong, can be very expensive to fix. But then, relative to the initial cost of the vehicle I don't think they're that bad. Yes there is the Ferrari Tax, but then that come with having the Ferrari Effect, every time you pull into the coffee shop/fill up with gas/go get groceries (kidding on that last one, who uses their Ferrari for grocery shopping, that's what the Porsche is for )

Bottom line, any exotic is going to be more expensive to fix than a "regular" car. On the plus side, "regular" cars don't get my blood flowing quite like a nice exotic.

 

This is a Do It Yourself (DIY) number. I think the consensus is that you need to put away 2-3K per year to own a 360.

 

2-3k is high but there is no way a thorough annual is getting done for 800.

As I told you, some of the people you are using are not correctly looking out for your car and it would not surprise me if that is why you are where you are now.


Bottle of wine? Hardly. That has been no favor to you.

Paying the money to get it looked after correctly costs less in the long run.

The last CS that was here cost the owner several thousand, I'll guess 7 or so between 2 other shops. It was a good deal for how many hours they spent on it and all the parts they replaced. Problem was when they were done it was still undriveable. Had to be towed here. My bill was almost $7000 to fix their work and the car. Had it come here first he would have been out for less than half the total.

Good shops keep cars from breaking. It costs a little more for the service but the bank breaking repairs become things you read about and not experience.

You are well on your way to being an ex Ferrari owner who tells stories of how much it costs to own one and about how they are not reliable.

 

Not as embarassing as being stranded on the side of the road with a Pontiac Aztec

 

I should have been more clear. If 2-3K per year is placed in an account you won't spend it every year but the balance should carry you through the belt services (majors) when they pop up. Providing you start with a good car and treat it right.

This is just guidance. I am not that great with money so I need to do it this way! There is a cost to get your car sorted too but I think my math works once you are there and in it for the long haul.

Also watch out for the dealers/service centers that do not itemize your service bill. "Performed Annual Service" is not an acceptable description on the invoice!

 

About 5 years ago, I completely changed my behavior on buying cars. I used to buy new cars then traded them in 1 to 2 years max. I do not know but it had been that way for years.. I just loved driving a new car with new car smell.. Then all of sudden, I realized that I was wasting too much money. I decided to keep cars as long as possible until I find a really good one that can't resist. I think my previous experience with a Maser Spyder made me to change my behavior as the deperiation was just insane.

All cars break down and will have issues. A normal MB SL500 that I have kept for almost 9 years cost me more than $10K this year so far. ABC suspension and all kinds of unexpected stuff surfaced. 7 year old Audi S8 also had some issues. Porsche 911 turbo was so robust that I did not even have to visit mechanics besides simple oil changes. The car is solid.

Ferrari is another one that has not given me the problems but i will find out in a month or two when I take it to my mechanic for annual fluid change. Mine is F430 Spider with 18K miles on it. It is a fantastic machine. I almost went for Gallardo Spyder but am glad I stuck with Ferrari. Next one will be 488 Spider as I did not like 458 which looks like a stingray.

MB's quality has dramatically went down and I do not wish to own another one. CL65 AMG was fun but maintenance was ridiculous after the warranty ran out. For SL, same thing. I hear same from BMW owners as well.... With so many computer related components makes it hard to keep up. But we are all here because we love the black horse... Italian super models are not easy to tame... I will always have an Italian in my garage forever no matter what.

 

It is called an annual service because it is a service, not a fluid change. A great many things are inspected. Besides, what fluids are being changed? It simply cannot be done for 800.

Via PM you have mentioned who has been working on the car. Of the 2 shops, neither is a good choice for your purposes. The Bay Area in knee deep in Ferrari repair shops. A few of them are good, fewer still are equipped and knowledgeable to do the later cars yet almost none will turn away cars they are not qualified to do.

Your last sentence is correct. Poor service procedures are going to lead to big bills. I tell my clients I hate fixing cars. If we service them correctly fixing them becomes a rare event. We both like it that way.

I am sorry for your trouble but if you want it fixed correctly, for a fair price you will need to take it somewhere else.

 

i have to agree with Mr Yangstein, My MB S class was just repaired at the dealer in Dallas (5K$) this was not my first bill for the car. My 360 spider has had no problems outside of a set of tires and service items. I believe the germans are losing their build quality. I believe Ferrari builds a good car so far no issues.

 

I agree that Merc/Bmw built quality seems to have gone down. Scary thing is they seem to design them that way... My Bmw 7 series had a transmission failure earlier this year and the only option was to replace it. 70k miles only. What a joke. And when you google online, you realize these issues are all too common. My S550 merc also has intermittent transmission issues, and when you google it, transmission failures are also common.

On the other hand, knock on wood, my stradale and Porsche 996 had been rock solid. My 996 has seen tons of track days. Years ago, my wife and I tracked the hell out of it. Only needed oil and brake pad changes...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Italians are known for alot of things but their mechanical prowess isn't one of them. People don't buy Italian cars because they're needing transportation.

 

It appears that I have struck some nerves on the situation about cost and ownership. Just for the record, no I'm not loyal to any car maker, only to my money. Secondly, I have no experience with owning an F-car, to be honest everything I know about the F car is from this website and the those owners that post topic and issues. So please excuse me from asking questions that don't sit well with the owners. As for my S63 yes I feel its dependable and its driven everyday, and yes the car repairs when they come will be expensive no doubt, but I'm sure you can't drive an F-car everyday as a Merc. I understand that the F car is not for everyday driving but for and occasional enjoyment. but if you look down the list of forum post, it seems like 75% of the post are about something breaking. Just like my Regal boat, I expect it to be costly when repairing, but at some point when the cost starts to out weight the fun factor, its time to go. So I was just trying to get an honest opinion about owning the F car. I'll keep my question to myself, Sorry if I have offended anyone.

 

I just had a annual service - fluids, belts changed, etc. It was $4500. Since I bought my car in April, I have spent $17k on maintenance and repair to bring it back to standard. The last owner let it sit for years and things go bad if they're not being used or stored properly. I did pay about $12k less than market for it.

Maintenance costs and repairs are two totally different things. Maintenance costs should exist regardless of how much or how hard you drive your car. If the previous owner of my car had bothered with proper maintenance, the car wouldn't have needed so much repair.

You're essentially purchasing a race car for the street. Yes, I know there are things that go faster, my husband has a GT-R. But high performance vehicles require more than a Honda Accord. I think the bottom line is if you're not prepared to shrug and say "okay" when faced with an expensive repair, don't buy the car. Unless you love it, you'll stress over the cost or resent the cost. I don't resent any of it. I'm happy that my car is being restored to its prior glory.

 

Careful here.. now that IMS changes are easy to have done its not as bad a car to own... but its not if.. but WHEN that bearing goes!

 

Your questions are not offensive but you persist in making incorrect assumptions that many here have tried unsuccessfully to correct and it seems all fall on deaf ears.

I have had many clients use their Ferrari as daily drivers. Not really all that unusual.

 

A service of that expense that includes belts is not what is defined as an annual service. Without knowing all the specifics it sounds more like a major service and is a very different thing.

 

It probably was major. The car had been ignored for years and my instructions were to repair everything that it needed. I wanted it running right and now it's awesome. Dashboard repair planned for this winter when I'm back in Texas.

I also replaced tires that were dry rotting and added Capristo exhaust.