Saving a Scuderia | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Saving a Scuderia

Discussion in '360/430' started by rmarchjr, Aug 19, 2015.

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  1. frank320

    frank320 Karting

    Feb 27, 2005
    118
    Watchung NJ, USA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    When i first read this thread, i thought to myself: "Another one about to sink into the abyss, never to be heard again. I gave you a 15% chance of getting this car resurrected, and an over 80% chance that we won't hear from you till 2 years later, after you gave up."

    I was wrong. Great job. You couldn't have picked a better car to save and restore.
    Congratulations on a successful track outing. Nothing beats that feeling.
     
  2. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,804
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Inspiration thread. The fact that this thing already made it to the track is unbelievable. You should submit the story to jalopnik if you are so inclined; I bet they would love it.
     
  3. TonysCS

    TonysCS Rookie

    Apr 6, 2014
    2
    Devon, England
    Full Name:
    Tony Whitehead
    A brilliant inspiring thread.
    Great that you have put it back on track.
    As you say the price of our Scuds has rocketed and are now becoming collectors pieces, instead of track weapons. Good and Bad
     
  4. makethemsaywow

    makethemsaywow Karting

    Mar 24, 2015
    161
    SF, CA
    Do you have any video of your track outing?
     
  5. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
    402
    FL
    Full Name:
    David
    Great job on the car! Glad to see you having fun with it on the track.

    If you don't mind my asking, what's your background and how did you learn to do the work you've done on the car? I'm always fascinated to see someone successfully tackling a project like this who doesn't do it for a living. We had a lot of old high mile cars growing up, and my Dad did all the work, and taught me. And from there, I've been lucky to have a few excellent Porsche/Ferrari techs as friends and mentors. I know very little about body and frame stuff. Cool project!
     
  6. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    frank - yea my backup plan in case the body was beyond repair was to steal the electronics, motor and superfast trans and install that into my 360 CH car.

    Thanks everyone, sorry, no video but you wouldn't have wanted to watch it anyway. It was really a boring break-in/testing/sliding everywhere run, I think I got passed by a guy on a bike with a baseball card tied to the spokes. Those tires were horrible and did not belong on any ferrari car. Next time I will be running 430 Challenge sized slicks and I'll try to work out some video.

    I have to give you guys you guys props for putting your Scud's on track at all. I don't think I would if I just went out and bought one. For me its too much money and too much worry, that is the reason I bought a CH car. There is something very awesome about a car that is in 3 colors, with primer, and that is far far from paint perfect and with a salvage title. It's like being free of the concerns of Ferrari ownership while still having all the fun. Very odd, I do recommend it.

    I feel like John Belushi in animal house, the devil on one shoulder "drive, drive faster, have fun, don't repaint, don't do bodywork" and the angle on the other, "the car deserves new paint, you must make her perfect, drive softly, don't scare the nice pedestrians with those loud downshifts".

    Today is another big day - the car goes in for "Enhanced Inspection". In Pennsylvania, once a salvage titled car is repaired. You must bring the auto to a specially registered inspection station. They take a more detailed look at it, check your work, make sure is complies with all current laws and if all is good, you pay your pound or two of flesh to the State. The car must be insured and an MV-426b form is needed and all taxes are settled on the original car purchase and on the replacement parts if they cam from out of state and don't show taxes paid. Every invoice including those for used parts must be included, and must be marked as PAID. So I have an appointment later today and in about a week I should have my new registration, a month after that a new "R" (reconstructed) title. The title is in a different color and is clearly labeled reconstructed to let any buyer know that this car has accident history.

    I didn't forget - I will post the PIA "dashboard removal" procedure as soon as I get some time.
     
    Badabing! likes this.
  7. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
    2,203
    LA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Let us know about how the slicks work out. I've been tempted to try them but I saw a few posts on Fchat about how you can't run them for one reason or another (electronics?). Anyway, I bet the scud on slicks would be amazing.

    Yeah, the more I think about it, the salvage Ferrari angle is a great one. Somewhat ironically, the perfect Ferrari for someone who wants to drive it is a salvage Ferrari! You've stumbled on something amazing here. You've even got me tempted to find a salvage car myself. How great to have a "driver" Ferrari without the worries associated with losing on a significant investment. I'd even leave it in the primer state, sort of like a Ferrari rat rod. Can't say there are many of those out there. Only problem in my case is I don't know anything about repairing a car like this, so it won't likely every happen for me. :(
     
  8. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
    2,203
    LA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    #133 MaranelloDave, Sep 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    Dave - nice find, maybe an extra week to finish?

    I was actually thinking about buying it just to use the title for the CH car, occasionally it would help just to insure it runs right and to track down issues. Now I think getting the dealer licence is better, but then I'd be a dealer and my friends wouldn't speak to me anymore, plus I'd have to put up with all the dealer jokes. Its a lose/lose.
     
  10. Freddan

    Freddan Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 16, 2012
    2,390
    Vansbro (Sweden)
    Full Name:
    Fredrik
    Love the work you do to the car. Wish you the best of luck with it.

    //Fredrik
     
  11. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
    24,442
    Honolulu
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    He could have used that front panel center strip!!!
     
  12. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 18, 2012
    3,567
    Canada
    Great thread. Love it when cars are saved instead of scrapped. The best part is you can enjoy it without having to worry about its future value, and eventually it will probably make sense financially to return it to its original glory.
     
    Badabing! likes this.
  13. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #138 rmarchjr, Sep 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Its all done. My new daily driver...

    The plan is not to worry about anything and enjoy this perfect weather. Perfection can wait on me.

    I do have a question for everyone, What is the lightest Scud you know about? Confirmed weight and still OK to live with?????
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  14. benzman320@aol.com

    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2014
    152
    swansea mass
    Full Name:
    bryan pacheco
    let me say you guys did a amazing job hats off to you .
     
  15. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    and in record time... I take it that your pic with "plate" means it passed the inspection :) Congrats!
     
  16. Andrew 912

    Andrew 912 Karting

    Dec 18, 2010
    160
    USA
    Full Name:
    AES
  17. frank320

    frank320 Karting

    Feb 27, 2005
    118
    Watchung NJ, USA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Not according to Jeff Spicoli at Ridgemont High:
    "My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools, I can fix it."
     
  18. lowyder993s

    lowyder993s Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2006
    503
    Leucadia, Ca.
    Sub'd! A man with vision is HAWT!!! ;) Excellent job! Waiting to hear about your skillz brought to this project! BOL!
     
  19. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #144 rmarchjr, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Great driving weather this weekend and I put 172 easy miles on her. To date that is: 131 miles on track & 172 miles on street. TTL of 3,743 on car. Absolutely perfect, no problems, no fault codes, the car drives like a brand new Ferrari but now I know why all our engine bay panels turn white/yellow. Check out these engine compartment temps.

    60 Deg F ambient temp, 30 minute drive with 1 traffic light(very little idling), and temps taken 5 minutes after I turned the car off with hatch open - took 5 minutes to find my thermo tool. Picture 2 the lower airbox was 208 deg F but it took me another 3 minutes to find my camera. That temp on the lower airbox on my CH car has reached 160 once in odd circumstances, it averages 130's on very hot days after 20-40minutes on track. Notice in pic 3 - 156 deg F - I am temping the spot that had turned white - the CF near it that was not white, was over 25 deg cooler. And all of this on a very cool day, imagine on a 100 deg day and some track driving where these temps would be. Not acceptable, there are both free ponies and reliability waiting to be unleashed. I do like the way the exhaust valves work, I removed the vacuum lines and the exhaust was way too dronie for me, volume was OK if it didn't reverberate so much.

    The beautiful CF seats - much better then the daytona seats but 20# too heavy - gotta go, and I'd like to see how much lower I can the seats. (not for sale)

    And those shift paddles are far too small to operate comfortably in tight corners.

    The Raybestos Racing ST43R pads are perfect on the track but may be too much for street driving, they don't overheat and provide excellent initial bit, but squeal and get grabby at low speeds like in traffic.

    Thank you Michael Schumacher for that shock button on the center consol, Race mode with the suspension soft is perfect for my crappy roads.
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  20. zc911

    zc911 Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2014
    707
    Brampton, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rob
    I just went over the entire post. My hats off to you !
    I've rebuilt some Subaru wrxs I remember the nervous feeling as you peel back body panels or broken suspension pieces, but this is on another level! A new Subaru aluminum hood is $500. I don't think $500 buys you much from Ferrari
    Nice job! Very nice, love it
     
  21. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,804
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yah it gets hot in there. I had a rubber bushing on my Tubi exhaust catch on fire after the third session of the day. Tubi sent an updated part I haven't installed yet.

    I considered doing the bottom of the airbox in reflective tape, but didn't pull the trigger. I think that would help - some. Freshmeat has a nice heat shield as well to protect the airboxes.

    It makes a nice heat source though on a cold day. Session over, pop engine cover, warm hands ; )
     
  22. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    So...crossed 4000 miles the Scud has run flawlessly, not a single hick up, it let out a few puffs of white smoke for the 1st 150 miles when upshifting but then everything cleared up. Looks like the accident may have put some oil up into the intake or it sat too long, either way its all clear now.

    I did discovered some things:

    TRACK- 246 miles - 2 tracks
    1. Scud runs much better without cats. No dyno figures but significant top end improvement on the race track, would not be worth doing for street driving.

    2. Stock Scud suspension works well with slicks. Initial alignment settings:
    -------------FR-----------FL
    Camber -.99deg. -1.12deg
    Toe -.6mm -.6mm

    -------------RR-------------RL
    Camber -1.84deg. -1.86deg
    Toe. 1.7mm 1.8mm

    Tires: 430 Challenge sizes
    Perrelli Pzero DH
    235/645-19
    295/680-19

    Those setting are also very acceptable for street driving with a change of wheels & tires.

    Now here's the rub. The Scud was very fast on 2 short tracks but slower then the 360 Challenge car, the weight & soft suspension prevented it from cornering and braking as effectively as the CH car but it exceeded the CH car on every strait by a huge margin 135mph in CH car vs. 160mph (speedo). The CH used data acquisition, I don't have one on the Scud yet so lets call that unconfirmed. NJMP lightening - CH car 1.094, Scud 1:11 estimated by running with cars with data. Need a test on a big track - VIR @ end of month.

    Due to the Scuds weight it would benefit from wider wheels & tires, it understeered on fast bends and was a bit unruly to keep in line. I'm thinking 9"F 11"Rears and a set of slicks for the 458 CH car. Maybe next season. With the 430CH slicks "race mode" intervenes way too early and cuts engine power when driving out of fast banked corners. CTS off is needed to get the performance out, thats likely why "some" people have said not to use slicks, the electronics just don't match up well to slicks, but if you enjoy counter steering its pretty awesome.

    STREET - 358 miles

    I like driving it but...let me apologize now...IMHO the 430 manual is a much better and more satisfying drive. I can't believe I feel this way but I do. The Scud doesn't do anything wrong but just putting around is not where it should be. It civilizes up quick in Race with suspension on soft and having that awesome F1 SF2 box shift in auto, soft and lazy. The Scud is like 2 totally different cars when using its different modes and suspension button. Its just not as much fun as the gated click clak shifter on the street.

    I would almost say its the jack of all trades but the master of none. (in stock form). I'm not really sure what to do with it now. I need a bunch more miles to decide, maybe a winter trip to sebring will help. It is rather amazing just how good it was on track considering it has a license plate, even among dedicated track cars the Scud(on slicks) is fast. No off track excursions this time.
     
  23. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
    2,203
    LA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Thanks for this info. The understeer issue on the track is recognized as a common limitation. I also plan on running wider rubber in front once my current tires are ready for replacement.

    So no faults/warning lights running the slicks? I believe this is what I had read in an old thread here, not just the nannies kicking in too early.

    Edit: By the way, I'm not surprised the scud falls behind relative to a Challenge car. After all, the scud is a road car and the Challenge car is a race car. Scud does pretty well on the track though for being a road car, especially considering its age.
     
  24. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,804
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Seems like pretty low camber in the front no? What is the factory range?

    Is that toe out in the rear? Thought you were always suppose to run slight toe-in back there?

    ~1min track is really short as you point out; will be curious to hear about VIR. I love that place!

    Have a blast.
     
  25. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    Oops - hay by the pm's I got please don't misunderstand - I do really like this car a lot, no it's not for sale.

    Dave - no worries on the lights, no warnings at all, everything performed as desired, do the slicks & have fun, it was much better then street tires. I guess I was surprised and did expect it to be able to pull a better lap then the challenge but 500# is a lot of weight and light beats hp every time. There were only 2 cars faster- both dedicated track - 700hp striped 997 turbo w 2wheel drive, and a very light & built cayman racer. She ran on par with a 996 gt2 race car.

    Single - yep not aggressive, maybe part of the ?lap time defiecency? I wanted to start with something I know would work on the street, now maybe a bit more aggressive to see where it becomes bad on street. Not sure about factory don't have it near me, I'll go back and look. I think you are correct w factory street but I thought the CH & GTs were toe out in the back. More research... The boys have never steered me wrong w alignment setup, but we usually try 2 or 3 before I'm happy.

    I am thinking she may need a little weight loss, we'll see after VIR.
     

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