Quizz: Last dual Ferrari ever built with original body | FerrariChat

Quizz: Last dual Ferrari ever built with original body

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by mabellan, Oct 9, 2015.

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  1. mabellan

    mabellan Rookie

    Jan 6, 2008
    10
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Michel Abellan
    Hello.

    I have a question to the Ferrari Specialists:

    What is the last dual (Race/Road) Ferrari ever built with a body originally designed for that purpose ?

    With other words:

    A Ferrari
    Originally conceived for race AND road use
    Body originally designed from scratch by a recognized major car designer and not a more or less heavy modification of an existing road design (like major Group IV models for example).

    Modell? Year? Chassis Nr?

    The answer might be not so easy.

    Thank you for your input.
     
  2. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,748
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Hmm lots of ways to answer this depending on interpretation. For my 2p I will go with Daytona chassis 12547 was specifically ordered by Chinetti with alloy bodywork and was driven from the factory to Le Mans for the 1969 race (where it was crashed in qualifying and dns).

    The later 15 Comp cars were more extensively modified and I'm not sure fit your criteria.
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,929
    ....15965...........

    MM
     
  4. mabellan

    mabellan Rookie

    Jan 6, 2008
    10
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Michel Abellan
    I agree with 15965. Thank you for your input.
     
  5. ursoenzo

    ursoenzo Formula Junior

    Jul 20, 2006
    825
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Christian Rauch
    and you own it :)
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,037
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #7 miurasv, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    What about 1982 512BB LM #44023 which as the last of these factory cars? The bodies on these factory made cars were totally different to the road Boxer. 15965 was commissioned to be rebodied by Michellotti by Coco Chinetti from a crashed road Daytona, not the Ferrari factory. Re BB LM, not sure about the "road use" criteria however.
     
  7. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    291
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    Not a road car at all. The 512BB LM is a race car.

    Best,
     
  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    Thanks. In that case other contenders could be 275 GTB Competizione Speciale 06885 or 07185. 275 GTB/C and Daytona Competizione being too similar in shape to the road car.
     
  9. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Why not the 288GTO Evoluzione/F40?
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,037
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #11 miurasv, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    The 288 GTO Evoluzione was designed for the track so not a dual role road and race car and never raced due to the scrapped Group B regulations. Other sources say the Evoluzione was the test bed for the F40. The F40 was a road car and the F40 LM/Competizione cars were race cars so singular role, not dual role. Besides the shape is too similar for them to meet the OP's criteria of an original body. Just my opinion.
     
  11. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Interesting - thank you.
     
  12. Jorge Orwell

    Jorge Orwell Rookie

    Jul 30, 2015
    5
    Would the 348 / 355 Challenge cars also fit into this criteria??
     
  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    Body shape same as the street car. I don't think the Challenge cars were street legal either so not dual role. Mind you, would a Daytona Competizione in full racing trim be street legal?
     
  14. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,748
    Surrey, England
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    Matthew
    I guess a Daytona comp would of had to be street legal to complete in the Tour de France Automobile in the same way a WRC car is street legal today to do the transit sections between stages. The second of the S1 comp cars 14429 was delivered as a street car too its first owner.
     
  15. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    Ken and Rosi Starbird used their Comp Daytona as their every day driver. I drove it back to L.A. from Monterey one year and it was perfectly driveable. Loud, but driveable.
     
  16. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    952
    If street legal means to be properly registered in the UK and pass MOT in order to drive on public roads, based on my experience it is possible. Would not assume it is the case in every country...and if you start the car at 7 am on Sunday morning,,,you may have problem with the neighbors unless you live in a farm in the Highlands...
     
  17. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,437
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    Mario
    I think 348 Challenge cars were road legal.
     
  18. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2003
    1,239
    Seattle area
    Full Name:
    Claudio
    355 Challenge.
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,037
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    I called Ferrari North Europe, who were very helpful, having been referred to them by Maranello Concessionaires and they said the the 348 and 355 Challenge cars made by the factory were track only. Other sources say some Road cars were converted to Challenge spec with a factory supplied kit. Some Factory Challenge cars seem to have been converted to road use. Ferrari North Europe's telephone number is +441753878700 if you'd like to call them. They may have looked into my question further and might have a different answer to the one they gave me.
     
  20. mabellan

    mabellan Rookie

    Jan 6, 2008
    10
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Michel Abellan
    Well... Can we say that 15965 is a crashed Daytona rebodied by Michelotti on behalf of Coco Chinetti ?

    Here is my understanding of the story after my visit to Edgardo Michelotti, son of Giovanni, on last September. He showed me a lot of documents related to this 15965 project.

    According to him, the 365 GTB/4 Michelotti 15965 has been ordered by Luigi Chinetti (not Coco) who wanted to have a spyder to be entered at le Mans 75. Giovanni Michelotti designed the car on a very independent manner, on the same way he had designed all his other cars: a concept from scratch. Edgardo Michelotti doesn't agree with the story telling that Coco Chinetti has co-designed the car. Even more, Edgardo told me that Luigi Chinetti was "surprised" and "not so happy" about the back of the car which was too much american-Corvette looking for him.

    According to Michelotti and the documents I saw, it was not a simple modification of a Daytona, but really the creation of an original car. Of course chassis and mechanical parts were based on the Daytona. The Ferrari Factory which was informed about the project from the very beginning, was asked to deliver the needed parts. They chosen to deliver the needed parts under the form of a crashed Daytona.

    The two stories may say the same, but on one hand we have a modified Daytona ordered by the son of... on the other hand we have an original creation from one of the most prolific designer of his generation ordered by the man who made Ferrari in the USA and probably the last dual Ferrari ever built. (it sounds better of course :))

    I am of course very interested in any document or information about this project 15965.
     
  21. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
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    Mario
    Classic!
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,929
    Original exterior color: Giallo Fly 20-Y-191.
    Original interior color: Nero VM 8500 Connolly.
    Assembly sequence #797.
    Scaglietti Body #860.
    27 June 1972 factory completion date.
    Delivered new to official dealer M. Gastone Crepaldi S.a.s., domiciled at Via San Marco 26 in Milan, Italy. Sold by Crepaldi to the first private owner Mr. Giancarlo Gagliardi.

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #24 miurasv, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
    Because both the 15965 conversion from Road car to Road/Racer and its design were not commissioned by Ferrari, it would be a bit of a stretch to call it a "Dual role Ferrari." It has a very interesting history with its Chinetti and Michellotti DNA and the engine from one of the 15 genuine Factory Daytona Competizione cars, but in becoming this "one off" and "racer" the Ferrari gene has been omitted in its creation. The design wasn't homologated.

    It was withdrawn from the start at Le Mans 1975. I also read that due to a protest and the fact that there was no class for a one off bodied car to enter, 15965 was prevented from starting the race at Daytona 1978, so it never actually raced.

    It could be said that the last "dual role" model Ferrari was the pre 1961 alloy 250 GT SWB Competizione. Even though they can and were (and are) used on the road, the 61 model 250 SWB Competizione cars became more racer than road car with the GTO, 275GTB/C and Daytona Comp following suit.
     
  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,037
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    Steven Robertson
    #25 miurasv, Oct 23, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    The engine from the Starbird's Daytona Comp 15965 ended up in the NART Michellotti Daytona 15685, owned by the OP.
     

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