Who is in ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Who is in ?

Discussion in '308/328' started by italianjoe, Oct 12, 2015.

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  1. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    I take it that you mean the voting stock wasn't publicly traded then but is now.

    I take little comfort in the fact that members of the family are the stewards of Ferrari's future.
     
  2. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
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    Brian Harper
    I'm not going to buy any, but if I were to buy any, even as a novelty, I wouldn't buy it close to the IPO date. Wait until the Tifosi are done driving the price up and buy in the drop.
     
  3. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2012
    1,803
    Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Justin
    #28 wildcat326, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    To answer Vizsla's question, Ford in the past has tried to acquire Ferrari, but the private stockholders said no and shut them out. Once a stock is available on an exchange to institutional (hedge funds, pension funds, investment banks) and retail investors (you and me), anyone can buy as much as they want. After the IPO, anyone can buy the shares so long as they're willing to pay the price. BUT, right now, only enough shares to represent 10% of the company will be offered on the market.

    Here's how Ownership breaks down: Piero owns 10%, Mubadala - the sovereign wealth fund of Abu Dhabi - owns 5%, FCA owns the remainder, and the powerful Agnelli clan is the major shareholder of FCA. FCA will float 9-10% of the company from the portion not owned by Piero or Mubadala. That means that - at most - investors only can buy up to 9-10% of the company. Whatever people like us or big shots on Wall Street are willing to pay, that price per share (for that small 9-10% chunk being floated in the IPO) will determine the value of ALL company shares. The remainder not owned by Piero, Mubadala, or floated on the exchange, will be distributed to shareholders of FCA. What this means in practice is that the day after Ferrari is spun off, shareholders of FCA (ticker symbol FCAU) will wake up and see x number of shares of RACE in their brokerage accounts for every y amount of FCAU stock they own.

    Bottom line, the SMART money bought slumping FCAU stock over the last few months while this weird deal structure was being discussed. Look at the charts for whats happened in the last 60 and 30 days as this IPO plan crystallized. The deal may financially harm Ferrari, but will DEFINITELY help FCA, since they get the cash proceeds....

    **** UNLESS I'M MISSING SOMETHING, IF ONE WANTED TO BACKDOOR ONE'S WAY INTO RACE STOCK, SINCE THE IPO FOR 10% OF SHARES IS TOUGH TO GET IN ON, THEN ONE COULD BUY FCAU SHARES MUCH MORE CHEAPLY RIGHT THIS MINUTE, AND THEN PARTAKE IN THE EVENTUAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE REMAINDER OF RACE to FCAU SHAREHOLDERS.
     
  4. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    I've read various descriptions of who will own what. Some indicate that the (small) majority of shares will end up in public hands but voting control remains with the Agnelli contingent, Sig. Ferrari and the Gulf interest. If any of the above sell effective control is up for grabs.
     
  5. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2012
    1,803
    Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Justin
    #30 wildcat326, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    That is more or less correct, which is another reason - apart from how it potentially hurts Ferrari - that I originally mentioned I feel this IPO is less than great.

    THAT BEING SAID, if a company like Ford or VW buys the full float, they'll have an awful lot of leverage to exert influence on the brand because - as (a tie for) largest shareholder, they are owed fiduciary rights by the company, which must act in their interest as shareholders. And, once everyone with FCAU shares gets his or her distribution of RACE shares, those, too, can be traded on the open market. Ultimately about 85% of the company will be technically available, even if voting control is held by the few current insiders. It would be difficult for Piero & Co. to fend off a takeover if someone hypothetically acquired all or most of the available shares.
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    If it comes to that I'd rather see a big automaker take over rather than a venture capital asset stripper.
     
  7. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2013
    1,539
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    John McDermott
    I could well be wrong about the F1 team. Dont remember where I read it. Probably in the European editor column in the PCA Panorama magazine some months back. I cant imagine the annual investment in F1 sitting well with the shareholders of a public company as small as RACE. Recipe for disaster IMO.
     
  8. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2012
    1,803
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    Justin
    COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!!

    My rankings:

    BEST CASE: Frankly, some uber-rich Ferrari "nerd" like Glickenhaus, Stroll, etc individually or as a group acquire the shares with the aim of honoring Enzo's legacy.

    TIER 2: Automaker buys them as flagship luxury brand/entree into F1.

    TIER 3: Sovereign investor buys them. Not the worst situation. Currently, and I've observed this personally in real estate, Asian funds tend to buy brands as A+ asset stores of value, and Middle Eastern funds tend to buy them as bragging trophies (and stores of value).

    WORST: Investment banks, wall street masters of the universe, activist investors, hedge funds, etc buy in and agitate for higher production, less F1 expenditures, brand whoring.

    Who wants to make bets on who comes out as the buyers?
     
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
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    Full Name:
    David
    Interesting times.
     
  10. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2013
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    Full Name:
    John McDermott
    I skimmed through the prospectus and confirmed the IPO does indeed include the F1 team. I am sure that prospectus has made for interesting reading for the other teams in F1.
     
  11. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 10, 2003
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    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    fiat - agnellis - ferrari having absolute voting control

    NOBODY is buying a stake to take control. period.
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
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    David
    At this point. The IPO just makes it easier to happen down the road.
     
  13. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,081
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    Mike Charness
    Good investment or not, I am going to buy one share, pay the extra to get the actual paper stock certificate, and then frame it and hang it on display :)
     
  14. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2012
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    Justin
    Trading starts WEDNESDAY for those interested.
     
  15. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Thanks for the heads up!
     
  16. Gator1

    Gator1 Karting

    Sep 23, 2014
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    Westport, Ct.
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    Herm
    Wildcat,
    Great insight. Your posts were a great sunday read.
     
  17. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2012
    1,803
    Chicago, IL
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    Justin
    Thank you Gator. Just read the after-hours headline that the IPO was well oversubscribed and priced at $52/share.

    ALSO, just for the sake of accuracy, I need to correct one piece of information that apparently eluded me in recent times. FCA bought back Mubadala's 5% stake, and indeed does own fully 90% apart from Piero. Thus, 9-10% will be available tomorrow, and the other 80% distributed to FCAU shareholders. Again, notice that the smart money has been quietly buying up FCAU shares in order to take advantage of the cash windfall from the Ferrari sale, rather than chase after the glamorous Ferrari stock.

    At any rate, we're 16 hours from the opening bell. FORZA!!!
     
  18. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,081
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    Mike Charness
    I bought RACE about 20 minutes after the initial IPO flurry. :)
     
  19. lopena

    lopena Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    767
    First public trade of RACE just happened at $60.00 versus IPO price of $52.00.
     
  20. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,081
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    Mike Charness
    Looks like it's headed back down towards the IPO price...
     
  21. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    22,475
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    sold the open
     
  22. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,616
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    #47 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Oct 21, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
    I got mine at about 56/share.

    Bought a bunch. What the hell...
     
  23. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,616
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    Me too. I had my broker on speaker phone while I was still in the bathroom getting ready for work.

    Not kidding either.
     
  24. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    58,123
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
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    Mark W.R.
    I backdoored my way in via FCAU.

    Made over $400 so far on that deal alone.

    BUT I bet I wind up a net Loser. :(



    ANYONE hazard a guess how many FCAU shares will net ONE share of RACE?
     
  25. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    58,123
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    Mark W.R.
    Something smells about that statement.

    :D
     

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