Replacing F355 Rear Lamps with LED's

Curiouser and curiouser....

The EP27 wouldn't work on Euro-spec cars, either. The Euro OEM relay also has 7 pins All pins on the Euro relay are used. Note however, that the relay holder has 9 sockets, but two are not used... There are no wires going to them.

Here are some photos of the turn relays on one type of USA car:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/260920-problems-my-directional-lights-part-2-a.html

Full message thread here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/260920-problems-my-directional-lights-part-2-a.html

Note that you don't have to pull the car apart to find these relays as in the photos. On LHD or RHD cars, just look behind the carpet above (and slightly inboard of) the forward luggage compartment release handle (on the driver's side).

It looks like the USA car in the linked photos has the acoustic repeater (extra clicking noise maker) found on F355 assembly number 24037 and prior (this is the unit furthest away from the door pillar). Looking at the wires going to the flasher unit (closest to the door pillar), it has less wires than the Euro car. How this works with so few wires, I don't know. Is the hazard relay a separate item on the USA cars? Are there variations amongst USA cars apart from the accoustic repeater?

I spent several weeks pulling my car to pieces and studying the wiring diagram for the turn circuits on my '98 RHD Euro-based F355. I eventually figured it all out, but, sorry, this is not going to help you guys with your USA cars.

Tips for beginners:
Don't confuse the daylight flasher relay with the turn relay. The daylight flasher relay is located in the forward luggage compartment. The daylight flasher lamps are the ones people think are front fog lights.
The wiring diagram found in the online Workshop Manual may not be applicable to your car (and is so blurry, anyway, it may be less than helpful anyway).
The turn relay holder has socket numbers (1~9) printed on the mating surface. These may not match the wiring diagram (they didn't on my car)

Before we start bothering the moderator to merge message threads, how about we sort out the confusion first and put the good data in a 3rd thread?

Cheers
Ian

 

Those images you posted don't make any sense. The larger image is simply a normal relay (no flashing capabilities).

The smaller image has two pins labelled "L". Which is the Load and which is the Hazard?

 

I am very interested to see how you make out with the install.

All of the info I have researched up to this point states the relays in question are the one found behind the carpet in the cockpit under the dash between the footwell and the driver door.

Please take some photos of the relay location and its pinout if you don't mind.

Also, if you changed all the bulbs first and confirm hyper flash and then change the relay as you describe and it solves the issue then we will finally have this solved.

Thanks for sharing.

 

Examine the legend for the EP27L; top "L" is Load, and middle "L" is switch. This information is just to the right of the drawing. The list follows the order of the middle terminals from top to bottom, with left and right terminals in positions 2 and 4.

The drawing on the left is for Bosch part number 0 332 209 159, which is identified on page L20 of the F355 US Manual as "flasher". Now...is it a flasher, or is it a RELAY that SERVES the flasher? Your claim that the 0 332 209 159, which is identified as the "flasher", is the relay for the "pull stalk back to flash" the fog lamps (you guys maybe have a different name for this?), may well be true. I will find out and post here. Regrettably, I'm not getting much garage time this week.

Your post leads me to think that you may know what "flasher capabilities" look like in schematic form. Can you please share this information?

Even though, from your post and reference post, you don't seem to be using LEDs, why don't you share what you did to solve your particular problem and let us figure out whether or not it can help us?

From my end, if one of the two "flashers" you've identified is the one that controls automatic flashing of lights, then it may be a simple matter of pulling the cover off and changing the value of the resistor to change the flashing rate.

I will proceed, and I will share what I find, whether it works or not. As a mechanical engineer, I am by no means an expert on this topic, but I'm willing to push until I get somewhere. As of today, no one...and we have people on this board who represent the cream of the cream when it comes to smarts and experience...has produced the magic solution. So, it's time to do some good old-fashioned tinkering.

 

If you're referring to Relay "A", then yes, it's simply the "pull stalk back to flash" relay. The Owners Manuals have no reference to the turn/hazard relay(s), probably because it's beyond what is considered to be easy roadside maintenance.

Well, the first of your diagrams simply shows a common control relay (solenoid and contacts). On the other hand, the F355 turn/hazard relay has complex circuitry inside (circuit board, microprocessors, etc). I would provide a link to another Ferrari forum/website showing photographs of the internals of the relay/module, but I believe it's against FerrariChat Forum rules. It's not so much a "relay", but a mini computer. It's probably best to call it something other than a relay.

Anyway... the modifications on the European cars (for LED-compatibility) involve the replacement of the 7 pin turn/hazard relay behind the carpet in the driver's footwell (as well as the light assemblies). No doubt this relay would have to be changed/modified on the USA cars, too (if/when someone comes up with a modification).

Correct... I'm not using LEDs on my car. I had a problem with one side flashing fast which turned out to be a loose earth bolt. In the process of finding the problem, however, I basically pulled the car to pieces and with a newfound understanding of the system, I re-drew the Workshop manual wiring diagram so that it might make more sense to the average DIY electrician...

http://www.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/FerrariF355Spider/FerrariF3551994LightingDiagram.gif

Unfortunately, I also learned that there are a lot of variations between cars (not just between 2.7 and 5.2 cars). E.g. There are relay variations between USA, Euro, F1, manual, etc, cars. I couldn't incorporate all that information into my one diagram, but if someone could let me know the colours of wires and which pins they go to on the turn/hazard relay on their USA cars, I might be able to create another diagram for USA drivers.

A search with Google on this subject might give you some idea of the complexity of this task. I tried to follow other message threads on this subject, but lost the plot several times

Back to the real experts....

Cheers
Ian.

 

Ian...you are definitely spot on about variation from car-to-car. Back when our cars were built, Ferrari was still a "workshop" environment...nothing in terms of the sophisticated change management tools and techniques we use in the auto industry today...probably a guy with a desk full of handwritten notes and fingers crossed that he didn't leave anything out!

Thanks for the diagram! Lots of work there...

Your post was extremely valuable here...I'm going to pull that flasher this weekend and open it up. I'll check resistance, and see if I can pull resistor and replace with variable. Then we'll see what happens!

 

Yep...I think you guys are right, based on everything I've seen. So...I'm going in this weekend. I will photograph the relay from all sides, and I will photograph the socket and wires as well. The more I think about this the more it looks like I will try modifying the value of the internal resistor with a variable. Also, will hope to confirm the hyperflash prior to doing any work. The conversation here has been key to getting a grip on this...thanks!

 

Before you start pulling the turn/hazard relay apart, have a look at the relay on the 450/550/575,forum (I think it's the one I have on my Euro-based car)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/362438-550-led-light-conversion.html

It won't be easy to identify the resistor(s) to be changed.

Those relays aren't exactly cheap...

 

How dare you mess up my fantasy with all that reality!!! LOL...that looks a little scary, but I've gotten myself into worse trouble for something a whole lot less meaningful than an F355!

 

So...for this weekend:

1) Replaced reverse lights with LED...WAY better.

2) Replaced brake lamps with 1157...they lit, smoked, went out, and that was it. No other damage; incandescents back in. Returning bulbs to point of purchase.

3) It appears that the flasher is tied into the immobilizer circuit. Ugh. That complicates things...just a bit.

Due to son's sports/school/my work...we're looking at another two weeks until I report in again.

I can't say I wasn't warned!

 

Any news?

 

None but fortunately I found this

https://www.scuding.com/Shop/en/ecu-solutions/102-smart-tls-ecu.html

 

I have the Scud Ing on my car and they are fantastic. So much brighter and all four lights light up. Reverse light is really bright. Quality stuff. Third brake light is also LED and programmable Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That flasher relay works with front LED turn signal bulb. Took 10 minutes to install and had a better clicking noise when directional lights are on,

 

So you're saying it doesnt work for the back?

I put led bulbs in the back but not from the same company. Why are the ones you have so many parts?

Thanks for bringing this thread back alive. Its about time modern led technology can be applied here at an affordable price.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login

The relay is for the front turn signals when you use their LED bulb. You do not need for the rear taillights. The whole rear light bulb assembly is changed and plugs into the existing wiring harness. The bulb holder has a different reflector. Extremely high quality. The LED lights really modernize the car and are a bright red unlike the stock orange color. All four tail lights light up when lights are on and all 4 light up when braking. They come to complete brightness immediately unlike the stock incandescent bulb. The reverse lights are very very bright. The stock bulbs are pathetic .

 

Does your blinker now click like an electronic sound beep vs mechanical? I actually prefer the clicking sound now the relay I just put in sounds like a pacman beep.

 

It has a clicking sound.

 

any update?

the light kit from Scud is gorgeous and first class...no question. but there must be a more economical way to get the same results?​

 

See the thread I started on the same subject.

 

Yes. Just buy the led bulbs online and use the scud ing relay and you're good to go.