What would it take to get my 308 to concours standard?

Sorry Peter, but even if the car is a condition 2, it will take approx. 60.000 to 100.000 Euro to get it to condition 1 and that means a complete nut and bolt restauration. Anything else would be only cosmetically.

"Concours condition" means NOT only the correct parts but everything in condition 1 or 1+, wich means "as good as new or better".

 

From what I understand in the Ferrari world concours the new condition is not required. As long as the car is complete and original it is correct.
Hagerty and Nada concours term is more for other brands or collectors.

But I can be wrong!

 

I believe the single-pipe exhaust was standard in Europe on all carbed 308s. The four-pipe exhaust was an option. You probably don't have to change it to a single.

 

Peter -

Check this out: Judging Standards/IACPFA

It is from the Ferrari Club of America, but the references to IAC/PFA are global.

 

Just sell it to someone looking for a good 308 and save yourself a big long headache and a ton of money.

There are a lot more of those people out there anyway.

 

IMHO a concourse car would need to be a time capsule car. One that was purchased and put in storage . That would be a 1+ car. It would be factory original . On the other hand some of the frame off restored cars I have seen have been better then factory so it would have to be the judges opinion but the standard is high. I recall the Neuman fly yellow restoration was better then original so was it concourse?

 

I bought a one-owner 308 which was maintained by a single factory-trained technician. The car was intact and in good mechanical shape but had gotten tired looking over the years.

In trying to erase the prior owner's patina, I got caught in the concours swirl. I ran the car through the FCA judging mill at Concorso Italiano 2014 and will bring it back again this summer. I expect to score in the high 90s.

With all that preface, the answer is that it depends. Concours cars do not have to be time capsules though and the FCA judging rules, in fact, encourage driving.

In 2014, I watched the judges and subjectively got the sense they were looking at three big factors. First is whether the car is intact. All the parts that were installed at the factory must be there (down to having the correct cigarette lighter, USA bumpers full out, floor matts, spare light bulbs in the tool kit, etc.). Second, everything must work (A/C compressor turns on, aerial raises, windows raise, etc.). Third, it all must be in good condition (no paint nicks on intake plenum, airbox, serial number, wheels, etc., engine stickers nice, body paint nicely polished, trunk carpet and cover nice, door gaskets nice, etc.).

The FCA judging sheet, posted earlier, guides their evaluation. It is not a clean car contest, but clean usually is related to well conserved. A uniform patina is fine (my car does not look "new") but no single component should stand out as run-down or over-restored. A bright re-plated CIS fuel distributor beside an untouched vintage lightly oxidized cam cover is an example of over-restoration.

Regarding the hoses and parts like them, that is where the subjectivity comes in. It depends on the hose and it depends on the judge. The world is not perfect.

 

Yes, "it depends ..."

What do you want ?
1. Do you want (only) to be authorized to participate in a concours ? That means "only" a 85 points car, for a 308 it means a car, on wich everything is (a) original and (b) funktional, but not more.
2. Do you want to win a concours ? Do you want a platinum car, a car that gets 97/98 points or more ? That means to put in over 100k into a VERY, VERY good car to get a "over-restaurated" car.

The prior owner of my 308 GT4 has put in 236k EUR/260k USD into the car and so I bought a 99,5 Point car, a really perfect platinum award winning car. But: It is only a GT4, wich you can normally buy for approx. 70k in really good condition. If you set it in relation, you also should/could/would spend MUCH MUCH more than 100k to get a "more-than-95-points-car".

 

Whose concours standard? There exists no single standard or definition even in this country.


Just put it back stock. The market world wide rewards making and keeping them in stock configuration.

 

Ask F-Chatter Newman - didn't he do a concours quality 308?

 

I hadn't noticed that you are in the Netherlands when I posted my response regarding the Ferrari Club of America. Sorry 'bout that.

Rereading your initial post, it seems to me now that the potential buyer was just using "concours standard" as a short-hand way to describe a personal standard he was looking for. There is no "standard." Your car was just not for him.

 

I don't know if this is the correct box in which to indicate that I am looking for a very , very clean low-mileage 1989 328s with complete history, ongoing maintenance as per Ferrari specs, and is currently compliant with all maintenance requirements. Ca car, preferred. Will pay 60--70K for one. Please advise if you know of one or whether the price range is realistic? Thanks, All Ferrari Burt.

 

I think you are right. Concours statdard in the Ferrari world is a bit different to Porsche. in Ferrari - its ok to drive the car, and have "wear" - it should be clean for presentation but the days of removing blades of grass from the tires are over. In the Porsche world - concours means like new - never used ultra clean. so depends on what the person who is buying means when they say concours.

Best at Show Pebble Beach - the cars usually have both. but to be a Platinum award winner in FCA does not mean show room new. rather it means fully functional to original specs.

 

+1

The term "Concours Standard" is somewhat meaningless because any 308 can enter a concours.

"Concours winning standard" makes more sense but that implies an extremely high level of detail restoration or a time capsule car. The best I have managed is runner-up

From what I have read on this forum, the parameters by which cars are judged by the FCA are completely different to those of the FOC (UK) so even concours-winning seems a very inexact term.

 

My previous Mondial had won platinum a few times with the previous owner and I was surprised because it wasn't a trailer queen but the salesman at the shop I bought it from is a judge and he explained to me that concours for FCA isn't all about the condition a car is in it can have a minor imperfection but it must be all original.The way it was explained to me was that it was mostly the originality of the car that was the focus but of course it can't be a wreck or have had paint/body repairs.

 

You would post this in the FerrariAds section (need to subscribe for $15).

I don't think $70K would get you a very clean low mile 328 GTS these days.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I have been steadily reversing a long list of malfeasance committed against my car by a string of previous owners/abusers. I realised very early that it will never be concourse - short of winning Lotto and hiring a priest. I think if I had a concourse car I couldn't enjoy it and drive it as much as I do. When I was a medical student I remember learning a long list of causes for cardiac arrest - I don't remember "stone chip", but maybe it's there somewhere.

 

Interestingly, the UK FOC procedure is completely different to this in every possible way. For example these standards state the owner or designated person must be present during judging. In the UK an owner is not allowed to interact with the judges or the car at all and must stand well away. They dont check operation of anything or even turn the key. It states total cleanliness is not required but the FOC will deduct points for every tiny spec of dirt including brake dust on the inside of wheels (apparently you are not supposed to use the brakes on the way to the event )

The procedure above seems much more sensible then the FOC process. Official owners clubs are all regulated by the Factory so they should impose universal standards.

 

Glad I don't worry about this. I had a Japanese trainer as youngster when I rode in the Gymkhana .

After that in the local horse shows I rode nags among the young women of the county whose well heeled parents probably considered consulting the family attorney when my nag kicked at their hunters in the show.

I love driving my 308 .

 

I'm just glad that those crazy rules do not apply in US.