As I noted in my 'hello world' email - I haven't encountered many gremlins with my 328. But... My brakes were squealing pretty badly (think Deliverance...if you know the movie, you know what I mean). I took them to a local mechanic who is pretty good - my family has trusted him for years. He works with all makes/models. He ordered & installed ferrari spec pads (I don't have the brand handy, but will find them). He also looked to order rotors, but they were going to be $2k+ for the set and suggested we could try 'turning' them. I figured it was worth a try (famous last words?) Now, the brakes seem to work fine (perhaps a little soft, but nothing unmanageable). However, I also now have a 'BRAKE FAILURE' lamp illuminated on my dash. I have checked the fluid level and also the connections of the sensor cable, both seem to be fine. I have also researched the light on the inter-web, but I do not see any particularly good troubleshooting suggestions beyond the two I just mentioned. So - for the group - any thoughts? Unfortunately, I have to do something because my inspection is due Thanks in advance
I get the brake failure light pretty regularly in aggressive turns. Then it goes back out. The fluid is always full, so I suspect the level sensor is overly sensitive. My car is a 1987 328 GTS. My brake pads squeal sometimes. I chalk that up to the pad compounds used on european cars. If I brake more aggressively, they don't squeal.
no its a 87, are you referring to the brake park warning light, make sure your hand brake has disengage properly, press down the button twice while pushing down. my squeak dissapeared after I got rid of cheap / hard compound ATE pads at the rears, I installed Ferodo premier which is a softer compound and apparently very similar to the original Ferit pads, which I believe is Ferodo Italy. you can skim the rotors to even them, this will work fine if they're not to worn out.
Bleed them again. Two triggers for the brake warning light 1) fluid is low and the float trips the light 2) pressure imbalance from front to rear. OP stated the brakes feel soft and fluid is full. Air in the system will give a softer pedal and an imbalanced pressure.
Thanks mnexotics - this is definitely getting to my question - I haven't found a lot of info about what triggers the light in the first place, nor troubleshooting advice Will try this approach as next step. Follow up: Does any one know if there is a sensor for either minimum rotor depth or amount of pad travel?
Cool, ok about the brake warning light, I have Euro model so I just thought it could be the hand brake not fully disengaged. Like NMExotics metioned, check the brake fluid level, if not sure get the brakes bleeded, you can do it yourself. Start at the rear wheels, you will have to remove the wheels, let your wife or girlfriend press the brake while you open the bleed screw knipple, let it run a few seconds, you will hears it if airs bubbling out, then tight the knipple again before it pulls in air. Run through all four bleed screws and remember to add brake fluid as the level drops. If the air is out and the level ok but the light persists you may have a sticky/faulty sensor. Atleast nothing bad will happen, its only indication, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if it senses valve/brake piston travel though.
(Assuming that you have a 1987 US version 328 -- please correct if incorrect.) First, both the '86-'87 US 328 OM and the non-ABS US 328 Wiring Diagram show separate warning light bulbs for the parking brake and brake failure (so that seems a little in conflict with prior comments?). Second, neither the non-ABS US 328 SPC nor the non-ABS US 328 Wiring Diagram show there being a differential pressure switch in the brake line plumbing = can't be a fluid bleeding issue. The non-ABS US 328 Wiring Diagram shows: A. The parking brake warning light is only controlled by the switch on the parking brake handle mechanism. B. The brake failure warning light is controlled by: 1. The fluid level switch in the reservoir, 2. Wear contact wires in the (front only?) brake pads (but, even if worn, these would only cause the warning light to illuminate when the brakes are applied and the pads are touching the rotors), and 3. The Unfastened Seatbelt ECU/Buzzer should turn on the brake failure warning light only briefly during starter motor cranking to confirm to the Driver that the bulb is OK. My suggestion would be to first find and unplug the Unfastened Seatbelt ECU/Buzzer = if doing that turns the brake failure warning light off = you need a new one (the SPC shows it being located behind the Passenger Footwell Plate). Good Hunting!
Thanks Steve - sorry for any confusion that my response(s) may have caused. It is definitely the Brake Failure light that is on. And I appreciate the interpretation of the wiring diagram. I admit, I am very intimidated by the wiring diagrams available - still new to the concept of maintaining my own cars One frustrating thing about this is that the light comes on at start-up and stays on. Which would suggest to me that it is a sensor fault. I will try your troubleshooting suggestions above for elimination purposes - hopefully one of them solves the issue. In suggestion 2 above, you mention 'wear contact wires' - when I take the wheel off, are these obviously visible? or are they part of the brake assembly? (I'll try to find a brake diagram, but thought I would ask in case someone here has a tip or suggestion when taking the brakes apart)
There is a "switch/relay" inside the Unfastened Seatbelt ECU/Buzzer -- it is supposed to close when the Driver initiates starter motor cranking (to show the bulb is working to the Driver) and then open a second or two later. Your symptom matches something wrong with that "switch/relay", and it is sticking closed. Your symptom does not match having a problem with the brakes -- if it was a problem there either: 1. the brake warning light would come "on" when you just turn the key "on" (a wire going to the brake pads shorted to ground), or 2. once the key was "on", when you step on the brakes = the brake warning light would come "on" (a worn out brake pad). Starting is not involved.
in the 308 / 328 series cars there is a brake pressure distribution valve under the car ( a small aluminum plate covers it when looking up at the bottom of the car from underneeth. It is a pressure valve that distributed brake fluid to all 4 corners of the car. this has a metalic strip that if it conencts with the metal then turns on the brake fail light. sometime if this gets really wet - or old... its starts to send erratic signals - replacement is the only solution. you could heat it up - drain all brake fluid out - and try to dry it out. but i think if there is corrosion in there then its a matter of time. I guess you could flush and bleed the brakes again as well, and watch for any debris coming out. if you have a parts manual - look under the braking system - its located in the front of the car. you cant access it from the top, only from below. it looks like an H from below made of bronze i think... for squeeling brakes - usualy the pads.... especially when they get hot.
308 = yes; 328 = no Or please point out where it is located in the non-abs 328 SPC brake line part diagram: BRAKE SYSTEM - Ricambi America, Inc.
An electrical connector is supposed to route through the pad and is grounded when attached to the tab behind the front hub and the brake pad it worn thin (I'm sure it would be a ground...a short becoming open doesn't make sense for the circuit). Be sure it's connected on the tab behind the front hubs. Since the brake pads were changed, the circuit might have been grounded. Also, reservoir switch could be shorted to ground from the repair. Unless the safety belt device was molested, it shouldn't be the fault. However, it temporarily grounds the same circuit on startup. FYI, Steve, I reviewed the 1986 US 328 elect. diagrams and believe the bulb labels to be incorrect (bulb was called item 50 for brake failure and the circuit connects to Item 54, or the parking brake failure lamp; item 50 is routed to the parking light failure in the drawing. Please verify. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Agree -- they made a minor error and swapped the item 50 and 54 descriptions, but (as you described) the bulb connected to the parking brake switch is obviously the parking brake warning light.
