348 fuel pumps not running during cranking | Page 3 | FerrariChat
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348 fuel pumps not running during cranking

Discussion in '348/355' started by luckydynes, Nov 23, 2015.

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  1. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #51 SoCal1, Nov 23, 2015
    Did you get the engine to spin with the starter yet?
    If you can get it to crank hot wire the fuel pumps to see if it runs
    If it don't check spark

    Dude your ADD is as bad as mine LOL

    Have you don these yet?

    And don't forget t o do the special stooge dance

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sIXDKMh_gk[/ame]
     
  2. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #52 PAP 348, Nov 23, 2015
    Wait, the engine won't turn over? I must have missed that part. :D
     
  3. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #53 luckydynes, Nov 23, 2015
    She cranks over just fine. I hot wired the fuel pumps but didn't leave them hot wired while I cranked er over cuz pressure was holding in the rails ..the pressure however did not bleed off the rails while I cranked it and there was no evidence of fuel on the plug I pulled... And I didn't hear any injector clicking.

    I'm not sure if I'm the one with ADD.. Maybe I should read my posts again :)

    How do you read a crank trigger signal on a scope without cranking the engine? :)

    Cheers
     
  4. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #54 luckydynes, Nov 23, 2015
    I'll try the stooge dance along with my favorite.... The shuffle Bernie does in Weekend at bernies 3 or 4 or something :)
     
  5. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #55 luckydynes, Nov 23, 2015
    You guys missed the part about the fuel pump mounts I made also... They use off the shelf viton o rings to isolate the pump ... No more rubber to rot away... Yum yum
     
  6. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #56 ///Mike, Nov 23, 2015
    I didn't miss it because I'm planning to refresh my pump mounting one of these days and I'm looking for alternatives to the apparently NLA pieces.

    Would you be so kind as to post details in another thread?
     
  7. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #57 m.stojanovic, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You can check the crank sensors for windings continuity (resistance) with an Ohm-Meter. As for the Cam Sensor (there is only one, on the right bank), you need to take it out and test it as shown in the attached document.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #58 luckydynes, Nov 24, 2015
    Yes will do that
     
  9. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #59 luckydynes, Nov 24, 2015
    Victory! Kinda...

    I bypassed a series of on/off switches to minimize the voltage drop of the 12v going to the ecus when cranking and used a remote starter. The pumps turned on on one bank and the injectors were trying to fire according to the scope. They're stuck from sitting for so long. Not sure if anyone has any soak technique to maybe free them up? Are there any rubber parts inside them?

    I then swapped ecu's and the problem moved with the Ecu, so I do need another Ecu. I seem to recall a thread about someone with spare ecu's and or a reasonable repair source?

    Thanks for all the input. It all got me understanding things a lot better.

    Cheers
     
  10. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    #60 plugzit, Nov 24, 2015
    2.5 or 2.7? I have a spare 2.5 ecu.
    (2.5 has only one throttle position sensor)
     
  11. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #61 luckydynes, Nov 24, 2015
    Tps on both banks so I guess that makes it 2.7?
     
  12. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #62 ///Mike, Nov 24, 2015
    2.7 if TPS on both banks.

    But don't condemn the second ECU just yet. It might be that the voltage is still outside its operating parameters. Why not try a good, full size, fully charged battery first, now that you've identified that at least part of the problem was voltage related?
     
  13. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #63 luckydynes, Nov 24, 2015
    Ok thanks for the confirmation. I've got some spare marine batteries from another project that were in pretty good shape. But I'll try again with the charge topped off. The one that's in there right now I think is pretty full but it's worth a shot.

    Cheers
     
  14. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #64 ///Mike, Nov 24, 2015
    Just thinking that it's pretty rare to see an ECU die, especially just from sitting.

    Good luck!
     
  15. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    #65 plugzit, Nov 24, 2015
    No spark yet?
     
  16. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #66 SoCal1, Nov 24, 2015
  17. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #67 SoCal1, Nov 24, 2015
  18. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    #68 m.stojanovic, Nov 24, 2015
    I managed to free a few Bosch injectors by attaching a piece of hose, about 10 in. long, to the injector. The hose diameter was such to fit over the injector's o-ring. Injector and hose vertically mounted, I half-filled the hose with thinner and applied about 3 bar pressure from a compressor. Touching the injector pins multiple times with 12V supply from a battery eventually freed the needle and I got nice sprays down. Continued "pulsing" the injector with some more thinner and finally with some petrol.

    Of course, it is better to send them for ultrasonic soak/cleaning and taking measurements of their flow.
     
  19. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #69 ///Mike, Nov 25, 2015
    Resourceful as usual, Miroljub. Another thing that sometimes works is tapping on the metal body of the injectors while the car is running, assuming you can access them.
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #70 fatbillybob, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wow! I step away for a few minutes and all this ***** happens!

    1st Congrats Sean on the resurrection. I tried to call you but the number you posted does not work.

    2nd you must have a fully charged battery in the right location. There is too big a voltage drop on jumper cables.

    3rd I had electrical problems in the dark days of the 348 pre-stooge as we were trying to fix maranello's mistakes. I almost sold your 348 but then got hooked on tracking it. As more non-essentials left the 348 the better it ran. Once I gutted the electronics it was perfect.

    4th we ran the motor when you got it. Gas sitting will kill a car. You can see the injector problem and can see the fuel pump problems and even the eaten hose. Yes that was "Earl's" hose. The Earl was a personal friend of mine. We did other non-auto business together. I go way back with him to the old days of "industrial liquidators." You are going to have to clean out everything. I'm with Tim. I can't imagine your repaired pumps are pulling the correct amps. But you might get lucky. There are specs for the pumps and regulators seen at the rail pressure gauge. That's why I have 2 of them. Check for proper pressure through the rpm range.

    5th you much have good crank signal cam is not needed. I'm with Plugzit. Hotwire the pumps and it should run. I do not think you would have a dead ECU. I have never seen one. We do have access to new eprom chips assuming the rest of the boxes are ok.

    6th you need to see if there is spark. spray some starter fluid in the intake and crank over the car. See if it runs for a few seconds. That is very diagnostic

    Here are some pictures pre-crash. We need to see pictures of the repaired car today.
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  21. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #71 luckydynes, Nov 25, 2015
    What I bonehead maneuver... I typo'd my phone number. We'll chat later thanks for the feedback!

    I got er lit off this morning! I hooked up a power supply to each of the injectors while tapping with a socket extension and got them all to click.

    She lit off right away after that ... on one bank only though but she sure sounded good :). I swapped the ECU again from side to side and the problem followed ... hot wired the fuel pump but that bank still didn't light off, so it does look like I'm in for a repair on the one side.

    I started looking at aftermarket ECU's again last night and started drooling over the Haltech Elite series with the dash interface. I'm so tempted to just put the money toward that instead of repairing the ECU I have but I'm trying to resist ... it's tough though :).... it'd be a nice Christmas present. Maybe someone else wants to do an ECU upgrade with me ... that would really push me over the edge :).

    Thanks for all the input gents! You guys rock this section!

    Cheers,

    Sean

    edit: Oh and yes I'll post some pics ... need to put that taptalk app on my phone I think to do that or is there another way from IPhone?
     
  22. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #72 luckydynes, Nov 25, 2015
    Maybe I should just try an EPROM chip on the one ECU? What say you?
     
  23. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #73 luckydynes, Nov 25, 2015
    I guess I could swap EPROMs between ecu's to test that...
     
  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #74 fatbillybob, Nov 25, 2015
    Ping vvassallo. He knows the name of the guy in SD who made us a bunch of chips.

    Be careful with 7 year old sitting timing belt. Street cars change after 5 years. I changed annually when I raced it. Can't remember when belt was done but within 1 yr of your possession.
     
  25. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #75 luckydynes, Nov 26, 2015
    Cool thanks for the lead on the chips. I think I'll swap the eproms between ECU's first to see if that fixes the dead ecu.

    I'm planning on doing a major service once I make sure there are no other major issues lurking ... like gearbox problems.

    When I lit 'er off, there was quite a bit of gear chatter/noise coming out of the gearbox at certain rpm's. Do you recall that? Was that due to the flywheel mod you did?

    If not I think I'll need to pull it apart and see if something's damaged in there.

    Happy turkey day ... cheers
     
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