Looking at a 348 | FerrariChat

Looking at a 348

Discussion in '348/355' started by itsablurr, Nov 30, 2015.

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  1. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3
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    #1 itsablurr, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
    I've been on the hunt for a decent driver-mileage/condition 348 for a couple of months and happened to stumble upon a local one a couple of weeks back, just under 50k mi, recently serviced. Finally was able to work out a mutually agreeable time (between myself, the seller, and the weather) to see the car in person yesterday. Taking a look, I was left with a couple of surprises/questions:

    - Windshield and rear glass were delaminating. How easy/what is the ballpark cost to source front and rear glass? Any tricks/solutions? Initial searching shows that this is quite an expensive/time consuming issue to address with OE glass, bearing some consideration to vehicle purchase.

    - First gear was very temperamental, wanting to grind when attempting to engage on a downshift at anything above a dead stop (occurring when warm, whether at a 3-5mph rolling crawl, slow and deliberate single-clutch to first, double-clutch through neutral, etc). I am familiar with the typical cold 2nd gear characteristics, but this was a new phenomena to me, and not finding much info regarding 1st gear issues, which says to me that it is abnormal to these gearboxes. From my knowledge, it does not sound like mal-adjustment of the cables, but rather indicative of fluid type/bleeding/bad synchro. Anyone experience 1st gear engagement issues, or have knowledge of incidents/resolution?

    - Are there any available oem or replacement seat covers? Or am I left with sourcing used or custom reupholstering? The interior seat leather had some noticeable water damage/staining on the passenger side (below the front targa top seal), and the driver's side had substantial dry crackling/rash throughout the usual wear areas.
     
  2. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3

    Dec 15, 2012
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    My 91 with 53k miles has exactly what you describe going on with first gear. I figure it's syncros. Kind of embarrassing rolling toward a stop sign and forgetting which cer you're in and trying to put it into first and grinding the gets on a Ferrari. You get some odd looks sometimes. :)

    I don't believe there is anyone doing any premade upholstery kits out there. You'll likely need to just have a custom shop stitch some up for you.
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    1. Windshield, it is very common, if it does not bother you, don't replace it. Very expensive.

    2. Not normal, syncro. Expensive to do because you don't go in and back out for 1 syncro

    3. custom job, or a used seat.
     
  4. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3
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    Thank you, both.

    It looks like GAHH does new leather upholstering for 348 seats to be installed/fitted, about $2.7k for a pair of fresh seat cushion/back covers, with headrests. Similar ballpark to a set of used seats, it seems. Anyone try them out? It can be a bit of a process to finesse and massage seat covers for an as-new fit... re-hydrate/repair underlying foam, then fit the covers and stretch/shrink judiciously to fit properly without creases or wrinkles.

    I'm finding some aftermarket windshields in the $1.5k realm, rear glass around $3k.

    The gearbox is another big ticket, in the unlikely event that a change in fluid spec helps loosen up that first gear. How it felt under the conditions doesn't leave me feeling hopeful, though.
     
  5. Ron308

    Ron308 Karting

    May 6, 2011
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    Matt...I think I'd keep looking, unless the price of the car is way below average.
     
  6. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. Sounds like the car wasn't treated very well so more problems may be hiding. That said, it would be great if someone with the time & skills would rehabilitate the car, but you'd need to buy it really right to have a chance of not taking a total bath.
     
  7. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
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    I never go into 1st unless I'm at a dead stop. I never downshift into it. I'm guessing it would do it though. Second has plenty of pull in my opinion.
     
  8. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    +348.
     
  9. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    I was taught from the beginning that you never downshift into first gear until the vehicle is fully stopped. Been doing it that way for every manual trans car/truck ever since.
     
  10. Kravchak

    Kravchak Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2005
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    Never downshift into 1st while moving. First is only for starting out. Wade is absolutely right
     
  11. dapper

    dapper Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
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    yep me too, only go into first when at a stop.

    Makes a refreshing change from someone *****in about it being tough getting into 2nd on a 348 (something most seem to suffer from when cold, 'to greater or lesser extent').
     
  12. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3
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    #12 itsablurr, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you for the insight, folks. Please pardon the newbie questions, while vetting out idiosyncrasies from abnormalities in the quest to become a more informed buyer. I generally agree, and typically only use 1st gear from a stop.

    I would think that, generally applied driving practice aside as a separate topic, this shouldn't be an issue to physically execute if the gearbox is at temp and synchros are in proper order, at a slow creep and in a gentle manner (turning into a driveway, negotiating a parking lot). However, in the process of learning the details of these quirky and sometimes temperamental cars, I understand my outsider's general expectations may not apply.

    I have a few other photos downloaded from my phone (see window delam, h2o damage, etc). The lighting was pretty poor, with morning solar glare. The rest of the interior was in decent shape, leather needing some rehydrating, no stickies but the console plastics looked a little worn/bumpy, or had been poorly refinished at some point. The exterior paint was in decent shape, just needing a full detail to remove the heavy swirling, targa top had been 'coated' and was peeling. All considered, at 48k mi and a fresh major (no Hill Eng parts), the owner was asking $44.5k.
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  13. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3

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    Sure, maybe, but some times I don't like to come to a complete stop. :)
    I don't know, I've owned dozens of standard trans cars and put hundreds of thousands of miles on them. (doesn't make me an expert, I just sayin) And when I'm coasting to a stop sign with the clutch in I usually slip it into 1st at around 10mph and none of them have ever complained exept the 348. After the first grind or two it reminds me to wait a bit.
     
  14. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    Apr 3, 2001
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    Wheels are on in different directions. Doesn't effect anything, but cosmetic.

    The rear window, mine is in similar shape, but not as bad. Affect visibility? Probably not. If it isn't an eye sore wouldn't be bothered by it.

    Need more pics of engine bay and anything even slightly underneath front/rear of car.

    Front of car pics? Unable to tell if black pieces are missing next to the fog lights.

    With that kind of wear, it might be a bit too much but you could use for wiggle room on price.
     
  15. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Seats would be worth a shot to try and re dye first. Its amazing how they can be brought back.

    IMO $44.5 is pretty high for the several isssues the car has, top, seats, wheels look like they might need a respray...

    It's sometimes easy to fall for a car just because it's physically close
     
  16. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Agree 100%. This car deserves to be brought back to its former glory, but in today's market that's a very steep entry fee considering the odometer reading and the investment required to bring the car up to standard.
     
  17. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    What he means is that the wheel on the drivers side of the car should really be on the passengers side, and visa-versa.

    (The front wheel pattern should match the rear wheels which are on the correct sides of the car).

    As stated, it's a cosmetic thing only, but if you decided to swap them onto the correct sides of the car, make sure the tyres are not directional first!
     
  18. vjlax18

    vjlax18 Formula Junior
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    #20 vjlax18, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
    Priced too high. Sit on it and wait until the middle of the winter and make a good offer. I went through the same process. I looked for 1.5 years before pulling the trigger this past February. My car needed a full engine out sorting as well as many cosmetic issues fixed. The leather can be "refinished" but will never look brand new. If you truly want a driver car, then don't sweat the cosmetic stuff. I'm having the front bumper repaired and repainted over the winter as well as pulling the seats to refinish them and redye the carpet. I knew it going in and got the car for a price that I feel was fair.

    Also, did you try giving it a rev when going into first gear?
     
  19. IAmNotCasey

    IAmNotCasey Formula Junior

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    Downshifting into first is certainly rarely needed and awkward anyway with the dogleg, but the tranny is designed for it and it can be useful in traffic, or just for occasional fun when putzing around. What are you folks doing when you just about completely stop and the light turns green, lugging the motor in second?

    My car can have a hard time engaging first, but usually that's at a dead stop and it never grinds. I suspect it's the shift cables. Anyway I'd be very wary of a bad synchro, weird that it would be first though.
     
  20. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    You don't have to lug the motor or burn up the clutch to start off in second as long as you're careful. But that's not really an issue if you're used to never, ever putting the car in first while moving-- you just pay a lot of attention to traffic and your surroundings so that you almost never have to bring the car to a full stop unless you have time to engage first. All but one of my cars are manuals, yet I doubt I put a car into first when moving any more often than once every few years.
     
  21. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    I only downshift into first while coming to a stop sign at very slow speed and I double clutch, revving to 4k for the match.

    The windshield is a personal decision, but note that when they fail they fail from the edges. The rear glass can be replaced with a Lexan type product for a lot less. Removing the glass one generally cracks it so its an "all or nothing" proposition to replace. I think Bruce (Plugzit) did his tree car this way.

    You can have the T-Top done by a decent body shop. It might be easier to have the thing sanded, glazed and painted body color for a GTB effect.
     
  22. Stentboy

    Stentboy F1 Rookie
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    May 8, 2008
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    What's the issue with that delamination? It can't be weather or sunlight, my car has lived it's days in a climate controlled garage and has only 1950 miles on it and the windshield is "delaminating" down at the bottom as shown in the photograph above.
     
  23. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3
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    Yes, I noted that before even going to see the car, from the low-res photos. Funny how once your learn of the directional nature it screams out to you every time it is incorrect.

    Agreed. I offered up what I felt was a reasonable price based off of comparables, pending PPI for nothing else major, given the mileage/condition, and some further homework on my end with the 1st gear issue (owner seemed to indicate that's just the way the gearbox is) and it was a no-go.

    No, I did not rev-match or give the engine any throttle when moving the shifter to first.

    From what I'm seeing, it is simply poor process control by the orig glass manufacturer, Sigla, with some windows lasting a long time without issue, others lasting only a brief period.
     

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