Message from CEO of Ferrari on Manual Transmission

From what I can see, ALL Alfa Guilia Quadrafolio's come with a MANUAL 6 speed.

There is no option for an auto.
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For Ferrari, it was the Formula 1 program. Everything from Scuderia shields to carbon fibre to paddles. Racing has defined the brand since the 360 (arguably before that, to some degree).

Would that make it the only car offered in the US without either a DCT or automatic option? Given the DCT available in the 4C, it would seem like a no-brainer to offer a performance version with that gearbox.

 

agree 100 I think it's one of the most challenging manuals to drive well, but when you do its the most rewarding.

 

You're right, but in F1 now they don't even use the paddles for downshifting. It's only a matter of time before the up shift is done away with as well. Let's also not forget that F1 a few years ago banned some of the electronic aides like launch control. It's just arbitrary rules the manufacturers are given to work around, so who's not to say they won't return to three pedals some day? I know it seems unlikely but I never say never.

 

I thought the term "stick shift" originated in the UK?

The lower level Guilias will no doubt have an automatic option. Quadrafolio is at the top of the totem pole and will compete with cars such as the M3, ATS-V, and C63.

That said, I am very surprised they are only offering a manual transmission in the Quadrafolio, considering all C63s and most M3s and ATS-Vs are sold with automatics, plus the fact that their sports car - a car so hardcore that it doesn't even have power steering - doesn't offer a manual. I suppose they want to try to pull in buyers that still want involvement in their sports sedan, something that has become an unfortunate rarity in today's world.

 

Before we all say "whoopeee!" it would not surprised me if Alfa DOESN'T have a DCT or autobox that can handle 505 HP reliably and fit in the package.

They do have auto boxes for the lower HP versions. But those won't be available for maybe 6 months after the QF's arrive.

Alfa is not making "a big deal out of it" (aka Only available with a MANUAL!) so my guess is there's more to it than meets the eye going on here. Having dealt with Alfa for the last 2 years I can tell you what you hear is 1/2 incorrect and the rest just wrong.

I would not be surprised also if the US dealers are complaining about it.

 

I am guessing on percentages Ferrari still has more enthusiast owners than porche. Most porche are suvs and pedestrian doctor special 911s etc. That porche still has a viable hard core enthussiast base to serve with Gt3's and Gt4s is because porches chooses to still serve thta base. The reason they do is partly heritage but also most definatly because its a profitable product and a built in consistent customer base.

Now ferrari always attracted poseurs, thing is going back to the rpemise of this thread, very few poseurs coudl actualy buy because you had to be able to start a weber carbed car, take care of it, and drive it.

To paraphrase stirling moss, "I am an artist the road is my canvas." The ferrari was perhaps the best brush. While today a ferrari may well be the fastest, and most flashy, its not be the best brush, thats a pity, it means the "brand" has lost something crucial of its core essence and a major usp(to use brand speak).

Whther paddle transmssion or not, i think many here wish for a new car from ferrari that brings back that driving essence. Because one thing we know, if ferrari really sets its mind to it, this will be a superlative driving machine, and the one many of us here would really rather buy.

But yeah I get that the volume to poseurs is what allows the company to exist, it just does not have to be all about that.

Hopefully the dino brand breaks that mold and offers somethign raw and viceral, soemthign an extesion of your body and reflexes. Or maybe Ferrari does what modern ferrari does and makes a watered down computer driven more synthetic car with a lot of power to serve as the entry to the brand, with the more luxurious v8 488 etc being the next step up of climbing the ladder to the v12.

 

Most exciting new sedan car to come along in a while imo.

 

At the time Luca said they wnated to make ferraris more useable, have them be not just weekend toys. The newer ones starting with the 458/550 were certainly far more useable
and opened upa wider demographic. The peole, who used them daily around say Mayfair alsoi used them up which froma manufatuerer delaer pserpective is a good thing.

In period the 550 was criticised by soem Tr owners as beign maybe faster but more bland to drive. I seem to remember at least in Italy witht he ownber of a 512M back to back with a 500 on mountain roads.

Then the 360 took it one step futehr intot he useable v8 race. DCT later opened it up even more. The model became ever fatser on track cars, 599 that were also more "useable" but alot got lost in translation although more cars sold.

The whole thing also became a branding excercise, ferrari not repeating say the "mistake" of making something like 1800 F40s, keeping everythign"exclusive"

The accidental discovery that a very high performance car would also sell as per the 288 was also eventualy morphed into the Enzo and now Laferrari ultra fast cars of extrem price for anyone to drive.

Mercedes had to up production of its AMG Biturbo V12 motor for barges. Wealthy people like power and the expression of power and luxury, not to mention badge exclusivity.

But some like to also really drive, there is a a reason pagani still has not been able to cease zonda production and still makes them to order.

Fashion changes. Yes modern ferraris are great driveable fashion objects, yes for many they dont use the performance, ie not that you would but you could. Deroit sold many a huge v8 in the 60s on the same theory.

But look at the expolsive rise of trackdays and track clubs. In a world of draconian traffic laws and crowded roads, performance driving has not dissapeared, its moved to a more acessable and socaily acceptable venue. A viper acr may be the fastest street legal trackday car, but a slower GT4 may be the more desirable, its not all about fastest laptime, there is always going to be faster car on track.

What we are askign for is a ferrari that imbues the elements of the old swb in a modern package. Somehting great and dramtic(as only the italians do) to drive on road at all speeds. Somehtign I can drive to the track, wring out for a day and drive home.

The GT4 comes closest so far, proche is stumbling ona formula. That formula may or may not include paddle or manual. But its high time ferrari built an acessable superlative drivers car again.

If tech has brought us anythign it should be the track experience of an F40 but road experiine of the more comfortable 288 withj modern hassle free power ina very light package with modern reliability. A 2.9 TTv6 CF Dino could be that even with paddles. I just doubt that is the ferrari formula these days.

 

Sort of...
In french, we say "boîte manuelle", for which the litteral translation would be "manual box"...

Rgds

 

Agree 100%. Porsche by far attracts the most poseurs in part because they are so user friendly and in part because of their price point. the fact that ferraris weren't usable and not meant for everyday use is what kept the poseurs away. I do not think they made a mistake by making their cars more reliable but absolutely erred by making their cars so user friendly. Huge difference in the buyer they now attract.

 

Some very good points, but here are my comments:

-I used own a 512 BBi Boxer - that car made the TR seem like a limousine. And I find it hard to believe the 550 is more bland than a TR. If anything, the TR convinced Ferrari to move back to the front-engine V12 car, since the TR (and Boxer) are basically mid-engined GT cars - that right there should raise a concern.

-I too am excited about the new Porsche Cayman GT-4 and Boxster Spyder. But, there is a problem here. It appears Porsche has intentionally castrated these cars to a certain degree by giving them the Porsche 911 engine with less power and ridiculously tall gearing. The gearing means you won't be shifting that glorious manual shifter into 3rd until about 90 MPH!! That means these cars performance will not exceed the base 911, if at all. In fact, in real-world tests a PDK-equipped Boxster GTS will out-accelerate a Spyder until you get to very high speeds. In the twisties (where it matters) the GTS is probably faster than the supposedly superior Spyder. Same thing with the Cayman; the Cayman GTS PDK will easily hold it's own against the GT-4 under most circumstances. Had the Spyder and GT-4 had the appropriate horsepower and correct gearing, then they would be truly great cars.

 

"Exciting" is subjective while stick is a fact. But I don't think it's fair to equate the phasing out of stick with the phasing out of excitement. I own a bloodline of V12 stick Ferraris: Testa, F512M, 550, 575 manual. It's true that the F512M is the most exciting of these, but a 430 Scuderia (F1 only) is more exciting than a 550 (stick only). More involving.

Most fast cars now are less fun than their equivalents were 20 or 10 years ago, transmission is just one factor and sometimes irrelevant. A stick 991 Turbo is still boring (my view). In moving from the stick-only F512M to the DCT-only F12, Luca took into account many forces mentioned here. Not least of which, he wanted to be able to sell cars to people who didn't need to contort themselves into a simian pose, with no option of carrying their golf clubs, into a car that required a Zen calm and a comedian's timing to shift into second gear, and a weightlifter's arms to drive around a car park, while being aware of the risk of rearranging the roadside scenery if ever driven fast when wet.

Stick was just a part of it, even when the stick worked well like in the 575.

Personally, I'd take my F512M over an F12, but you have to see the lack of logic in that point of view. I'd rather have Ferrari as it is now than end up like Jensen or even Bugatti.

 

Did you mean 997? The 991 Turbo/S is PDK only.

 

I agree with all you say. But these days porche shows in a product line with model derivations you can serve both schools, its not an either or.

All those raw F40s were a good buisness for ferrari, the 288 they thought would never sell, these cars reset the ferrari image.
There is a market for the raw machines, maybe its 20% of their production, but its an additional 20%, and the percentage that counts. Ferrari can still make "some" great drivers ferrari and not end up a Jensen, simply by still selling the full boatload of Gt cars as they currently do. I would say they need to make some "real" drivers cars to remain a "temple" to the sportscar. Unless of course on believe that ferrari derives and can sustain its credibity from history F1 and a ocasional overdone Laferrari type car.

 

Trouble is, the EPA will not allow it. There are some many other factors drive the manual trans into dinosaur land, and it's not just the buyers of the cars.

Even the Porsche stick cars are not fully manual anymore. Sure your flipping the shifts, but it's controlled.

Besides, the driver in most new high performance cars is the main weak point. Without all the tech and driver aides put into them, they would be completely uncontrolable for most people, therefor unsellable, and no insurance company would cover it.

 

In the real world, a PDK box is always going to be faster and more efficient, other factors being equal. I can see three-pedal manuals soldiering on in lower cost vehicles, or those where performance isn't a priority (Mazda MX5, for example). But it's kind of like direct injection versus carbs. Carbs are cool, but when it comes to performance, efficiency, driveability, emissions, etc., carbs lost. I think three-pedal manuals are headed down the same path.

I.e., I think Ferrari's CEO is correct.

The choice between crappy automatics and relatively faster/more efficient stick shifts is done. Assuming we still have internal combustion engines in 20 years, I doubt either will still be around.

Agree. High performance cars are designed as a package to be fast, efficient, and safe. It's not a technology potluck.

 

What do you guys mean when you say not end up a jensen?

 

Out of business, methinks.

 

Yea, sorry. 997 Turbo (not S) was last stick Porsche I tested. Ironically the clutch gave out during the test, but that's not the reason I didn't love it. Personally not a fan of the 991 Turbo either but the also PDK-only 991 GT3 I enjoyed. And the Scuderia is still the most fun Ferrari I have ever driven. So there's no real logic to my ramblings.

Plainly enough people find many contemporary cars fun, to buy them in large numbers..

 

Jensen will (probably) launch a new model next year.

 

I haven't read this entire thread , according to article it's more economical to produce autos . I wouldn't think this to be true but of the electronics associated with making automated manual.

I also don't the fuss over manuals because if they were truly in demand then new buyers would have bought/ordered manuals. American market isn't a manual market . Look at Corvette sells over the years very few manuals were bought .

Even with a premium to have a manual for a new Ferrari , I think very few would buy


My two cents

 

IMO Producing a stick manual has also very small roll in legitimizing the credentials of a sports car maker

 

What does though. Every car is fast today. The only thing a sports car has is feel and the fun factor. Pulling paddles isnt fun.

 

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