Test Drove the 488 Today. Cancelled my Order, Sticking to my 458

Autodromo di Monza :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5nRb4E2188

 

No worries No need to use Wikipedia for that - learnt all that during my pilots- training

 

So you call others' different opinion a rubbish?
The moment you talk about efficiency, that's the moment you are being rubbish about your own opinion. You can build a highly tuned engine and add turbo on it (F1 cars or airplane in your case, LOL), but in 488, it's a smaller and more normal engine (not highly tuned, that's why it revs lower), built with cost efficiency(#1), gas efficiency and emission regulation in mind. This is not a turbo of your airplane-rubbish dream. This is a turbocharged spec-down-engine so it can produce high power. But a super car is not only about power, passion is the most important. That's why I said, there is no way to make it scream, because the problem it's not the exhaust, but it's the engine. Based on your airplane dream, Ferrari should build a turbo diesel engine too. Because turbo diesel engine for submarines cost few hundreds millions dollars, and it' super high tech and developed as secret program. This is rubbish, isn't it? LOL
Now if you want to wake up from your airplane dream, you will see clearly that after this, every successor will be an extra boost. There is no need for R&D investment in new engine. Now even Pininfarina is off. This is what about selling less car but making more money.
And you actually have a same thought with me for not getting the 488, which we put passion as #1. It's just we have a different way of rubbish thinking, airplane and submarine. LOL

 

Tell that to McLaren who changed 50% of the 650S engine for a 'measly' extra 25hp in the 675LT. Im afraid you grossly underestimate the complexity and tuning of turbocharged engines.

 

Last time they used laptop to add a "measly" 25hp on MP4, it's just that easy.

 

Not if you want to make it reliable, offer a warranty, run under all sorts of environment conditions, fuels types and blends across the globe, etc It take a lot more than just turning up the boost.

MB

 

430 was really loud,458 not as loud,488 even less I love them all the same how can you not love all of your children the same.
Whatever car you own they are all fantastic be grateful that you are able to have the Ferrari experience.
Have a great day and an even better new year

 

Some people here think a forced induction engine is a less complex, less engineered machine compared to an NA. The opposite is true. A turbo engine is everything an NA engine is but with the added complexity of the turbo-compressor, intercooler, plumbing, waste gates & pop off valve, etc. The turbo in the 488 is a twin scroll one, even more high tech than the usual turbo. Tuning all those components to attain performance, reliability, efficiency, and emissions targets is a more daunting task than tuning a NA engine.

High revving engines get their power from high rpm, achieved by virtue of highly over-square bore:stroke ratio design, nothing more. They are that simple.

 

Many economy cars use twin scroll turbocharger, like Ford Edge, Subaru Forester, and even Hyundai Sonata in 2011.
But I have never seen any economy car that revs to 9,000 rpm, not even close. Like Honda F1 used to say, "Boost is cheap, but revs is expensive".

 

I do not understand the eternal comparison from 458 to 488. A NA is a NA and a turbo is a turbo. I also don´t compare an apple with a pear.

 

And you Mik please wake up from your "turbo is cheap"-dream, this bs allegation really annoys me! This is maybe true for your backyard tuner who wants to earn his quick money on such engines, but not for a manufacturer of leading high-performance engines.

For instance you have no idea about the V8 F136 engine history, you have no idea about the R&D investment Ferrari did in all the different F136 specifications, what technical changes have been made and how expensive these were. Just a few empty assertions by your side.

So many people have already written to you how high the effort were (for example) between the F154 BB Cali-engine and the F154 CB 488-engine. Ferrari changed so many components, even the engine capacity is different. It is obvious (apart from you for most people) that a 3.9 liter turbo engine with 670 hp and 760 Nm has to handle completely different forces than a 4.5 liter high-revving engine with 610 hp and 540 Nm. Ferrari goes with both engine concepts to the limit, both concepts are expensive, the turbo concept (ohhh what a miracle) is maybe even more expensive with its two additional turbochargers units. In this regard to talk about more or less expensive engines is simply ignorant.

Have you ever asked yourself that a high-revving concept in everyday use maybe brings too many disadvantages and therefore did not find a larger usage?

Have you ever wondered why there were for a long time no turbo systems installed in the high-volume engine production? Why the Americans went the hyper cheap route over additional cylinder capacity? Why these turbo systems were first installed in expensive sports models? Why these systems over the past decades were installed first under the pressure of increased efficiency/less consumption? More technical components, more internal pressure, more heat. Bingo! Because a turbo engine is more expensive than a pure internal combustion engine.

But you wan't or you can't understand such facts, I don't know why, it is just secured that your contentless allegations are extremely annoying.

 

All of that is a guess on your part yet you keep stating this as if it is a known fact. So, while we're guessing, a better punt would be that Ferrari have been forced into the turbo position by Mclaren and it's got nothing to do with cost or regulations. Do you really think McLaren's performance lead over the 458 wasn't keeping Ferrari awake at night? Do you really think they were going to let that deficit continue with the next model. Not a chance. Of course, Ferrari are never going to admit that they're being led around by their arch rival (they're proud Italians and they'd rather close the factory than admit to that), and so we get PR releases about regulations and efficiency while Lamborghini are able to satisfy regulations with a N/A V10. And no, it wouldn't matter that the 458 was more highly regarded than the McLaren offering (and no, that wasn't just because of sound, which should tell you something right there), the fact that there was an objective metric by which McLaren could claim superiority over Ferrari would have driven the Italians out of their minds. We also know that Ferrari have a history of resorting to turbocharging when chasing top end performance as they did with both the F40 and 288GTO. In neither of those cases was their motivation a concern with emissions regulations or economy related to build costs.

You seem to have a very narrow definition of 'passion' that seems to rest only on sound. I think that's a rather shallow metric by which to measure passion. I think most serious Ferrari enthusiasts understand that passion runs deeper than that, right to the very DNA of every Ferrari, and look for it in every aspect of their car and, though important, sound is but one part of a complex equation.

Oh, and for all the carping about sound that you and others are doing now, that would be nothing compared to the complaints we'd hear if Ferrari were to allow themselves to fall further behind the performance curve.

 

Could not be be more wrong imho.

To add a new word to your vocabulary, Ferrari's uniqueness and DNA has always been measured by
the idiosyncratic sound of its' street cars

Again, if you want more performance you can buy a Pcar or a GTR for tens of thousands less..

 

Then, by that measure we must conclude that the 458 is devoid of passion given that its sound pales compared to a 355. The sound of the 458 is a synthetic construct compared the the organic howl of the 355 at full throttle.

 

What a meaningful argument.

How many times I've read over the past six years "the 458 Italia is superior because it is significantly faster than the F430" and bla bla bla...

And now with the 488 is a superior performance suddenly no longer important? What a poor super sports car world!

 

Well, the 1997 Honda S2000 revved to 9000. Back then Ferrari were still fiddling around at 7500. Some of the Peugeot GTI's revved to 8500. Plenty of cars revved higher than their contemporary Ferraris and some as high as the current lineup. A lot of more entry line stuff revved to 7-8 grand as well. This at a time where turbo cars were much more expensive than their high revving NA counterparts.

 

This is a chat site. Opinions fly.

 

Turbo prop IS NOT a "turbocharged engine". That is a false statement by a non pilot. A turboprop airplane is a turbine (as in jet) powered airplane that utilizes a propeller through a gearbox arrangement. A turbo charged airplane is a piston powered airplane that utilizes a turbocharger to increase its manifold pressure at higher altitudes.

 

Then I can indeed also communicate my anger...

 

The F430 is faster than the 360...but l did not buy one even though my slot came up. When the 458 came out and a friend let me drive his ltalia l was hooked. Maybe l will get a 488 after l drive it...or maybe l am the kind of Fcar buyer who doesn't see the value until two models later.

The F430 just seemed like a 360 on steroids and the car did not look as good to me.

I think the same can be argued for the 488 vs the 458. But 100 hp may be enough to close the deal. Still waiting to drive one.

Best

 

Airplane dream? It is called growing up around airplanes my whole life. Again you spit out information that is not backed up by fact. Show me something that proves the engines are not as highly tuned. Show facts if you are going to spit that out everytime turbo comes up. You keep saying things as if they are facts, so prove it. Show us all here on fchat that a turbo engine is detuned. Please, I would love to see the facts on that.

I agree that turbo cars are for emissions etc as well. But they do help deliver more power. The f40 is a pretty awesome car if you ask me.

 

+1

 

If you get to Connecticut anytime soon you are welcome to drive mine.If you decide to drive it back to Colorado make sure my wife is in the passenger seat.

 

Especially at your higher altitudes. You might feel the power bump even more.

 

You win, drop the mic and walk away....