is the bubble due to burst?

Terrific first post, I look forward to future contributions.

 

I tend to agree too. Statistically it is still in Italy ( unless they steal your engines,,) that you are more likely to find the old guard, and very few new trainees that they have formed over the years. And very few of the mechanics take the time or have the ability to properly test and set up cars. When I see people advertising cars, driven 50 miles since full restoration, you know that you will have a lot of problems because it takes more than 50 miles to identify and fix glitches. And if you race cars, and I do, we are taking of braking, gearboxes, clutches, suspension plus electrics ( who want a flat battery in the MM??) etc instead of a general comment " these are old cars they don't brake properly" . I could actually block all four wheels when braking hard in my former Mondial , the blue unrestored that RM was selling in NY, because we worked not only on the liners and the systems but on the braking shoes as well and on the drum to make sure everything fits as it should.
I think I had more than 10 engines rebuilt and all engines rebuilt by FC modern dealers proved to have a problem,,,and I like the mechanic with a screwdriver listening to the engine ( i.e. The screwdriver on the block or head and the bigger part on his ear) saying you have a problem at cylinder 3, I hear the noise. So this is not computer testing, but human experience. And I have tested the nicest Swiss shop, working within 100/mm tolerances and so clinically clean you could eat on the floor,,very nice job, but when I had to do the set up of the ( Alfa Romeo pre war ) engine,,well I had to do it in Italy.

Yes there will be fewer people to service those cars, but on the other hand there will be also less and less people driving them properly IE on the road at decent speed or on circuit. A lot will end up in museum or static display in collections, or shows, or driven in parade..for as much as I enjoyed it immensely, because it is such a nice atmosphere and place, the Tour d' Elegance is nothing close to revving an engine , and if you pass another car,,,I did it more than once,,,people are looking at you as if you are behaving like a hooligan,,,but a real pleasure,,specially when Sir Jackie Stewart stopped , at a traffic light, next to me after I was leading at spirited pace a convoy for sometimes,,,and whispered,,,I think we missed a left turn,,,well we came late to Laguna Seca but had quite a blast up Carmel Valley back and forth!!

 

Happy three year anniversary to the thread. To everyone who didn't buy the car you've always wanted because of this thread and its other dark and brooding cousins here and elsewhere, I'm sorry. You missed out on three years of great driving and enjoyment of ownership and could have bought many cars at a fraction of what they cost today.

 

Are you still in the service/restoration business? Yours is probably one of the best first posts on F-chat. Looking forward to hearing more about your experiences.

 

Yes, I am at another business that specializes in high performance cars of all types, but I am starting a restoration department. I don't want to publish the name because it wasn't my intent to advertise my shop, just to put in my two cents. Anyone who want more info on this can PM me.

I have lurked FerrariChat for years while I was at Canepa when I was looking for information and always found it a good resource.

Thank you for the compliments on my first post. I used to be a big participant on many forums but kind of got burnt out on unqualified people arguing against me. I look forward to sharing my experience and helping the Ferrari community. The Ferrari's I have restored were some of my favorite projects so I am hoping to land some Ferrari restorations and further my experience with them.

 

yeh this thread started just when things were getting interesting! but come on Sherpa I know you go to bed every night worrying about the next mile and dollar! not only do these things depreciate, they're no fun and temperamental!

 

Oh yeah, these Ferraris are no fun at all!!! Oh no! Depreciation and maintenance!! How can I go on??

 

Yep, no one in their right mind would ever buy a ultra high-end luxury car if they worried about such things. Why the big worry with cars as toys.

Ask boaters about depreciation and mait, it will make a mere millionaire cringe. It is about passion, not finance.

Anyway, I'm down in FL and it is 60° and people are bundled up. Wish I had a car here. Heading to Cavallino on Friday to watch the track events, I'm sure guys will be thrasing multimillion dollar cars. . . that is passion.

 

Jerry Seinfeld is putting a couple of his cars up for auction at Amelia Island ( sports car market )

 

My brother in law is a yacht captain. As he likes to say, there is rich and then there is yacht rich. Many have learned that painful lesson.

We have it lucky with Ferraris. I cherish every mile I put on my cars. My F40 has 26k, 348CH has 27k, 550 has 24k and my 360 is finally about to cross 20k. And they look amazing. You just take care of them and maintain and they just get better with miles. I know lots of people who drive their Ferraris and other more rare and collectible cars even more. They're really meant to be used.

 

Just saw that.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/news/jerry-seinfeld-collection-comes-to-gooding-co-amelia-island

 

What if there is nothing to disagree with BradWillaims? I have not seen one member proclaim they know for a fact that we are, undeniably, 100%, not in a bubble and will never be in a bubble.

The fact is everybody agrees there is a probability BradWilliams could be right; I certainly acknowledge that. A bubble is of course and omnipresent reality anytime you have the rapid appreciation of any asset. I would also agree that now may be a time to practice caution.

So let's assume *I* also agree we are in a bubble...what people have been hammering over and over again is for affluent, it doesn't matter. A person is buying an 1869 Chateau Lafite just doesn't feel it if they take a 50% haircut on it. I don't know anybody buying these cars with their 401(k) investment portfolios.

Secondarily, if we are in a bubble, and I am a "Ferrari" enthusiast, I would be happy for the rise and playing waiting game to enter once the crash happens. I seriously doubt Bradwilliams simply desires a crash from a position of malice and envy, hence why I've asked Brad (many times what car was priced out) or plans to acquire when the crash happens.

After all, it would be weird to bash the Ferrari market when one was not affected personally or plans to get involved, don't you agree?

 

+1

Just curious about others, and if there was a car you priced out of due to the run-up in the last 4-5 years....for me it was the 308 GT4 - would have been nice to pick one up when the uninformed had to question is 22K too much for a good example.



Cheers

 

I've always believed horses are a good analogy. Cars are just too damn appealing as mechanical/design/aesthetic objects to just go away. Instead the enthusiast community will shrink around a core of devotees that will enjoy their passion within their own subculture. Exhibit A would be the thriving yet invisible equestrian community which happily trots off to thousands of hunter/jumper competitions each weekend, out of sight of media, spectators, or pop-culture conciousness. I see no reason why that wouldn't express itself in the confines of private membership motorsports complex like the one I belong to in NJ, or carefully curated driving tours.

A good Dutch Warmblood is every bit as expensive an ownership proposition as a vintage Ferrari!

 

Whoa, horse analogies lead toward the arabian horse carfarful and how the collapse of that market is synoymous to the current collector car market bubble. ;-)

 

Since you worked at Canepa do you have any view as to why and how Bruce gets away with all the criminal stuff he does selling wrecked cars etc. Cant believe he was advertising that low mile red 959 for sale last year for 2mln + with zero disclosure of the accident it was in. How does he get away with this crap ?

 

wow that's nuts - did it go for 2M?

 

Hard to believe a used car dealer would do something like that.

 

Are you serious? There's not too much that would surprise me at this point! (Not saying the fellow in question here is doing that).

 

Please note that I was not involved in Bruce's business dealings and do not wish to comment on them. I was simply a man in the trenches responsible for ensuring the quality of the cars. I quit to take a position that will allow me to continue that tradition of quality while making certain I am managing my clients expectations in a respectful and fair manner.

 

Not to stray off topic too far, but would becoming a vintage mechanical engineering SME be a profitable venture into the near future? In 25/50 years will people even be allowed to drive vintage cars on public roads? I ask out of curiosity, and thinking of a potential career change. To me, know how to tune 6 downdraft Webers is an art, and would bring a premium. Will supply keep up with demand into the near future though?

 

I am not sure what you mean by vintage mechanical engineer SME?

 

I believe that he means "SME" as Subject Matter Expert. So, a technical/engineering expert on the workings and systems of vintage mechanical autos.