3 unrelated questions on the 360 & CS | FerrariChat

3 unrelated questions on the 360 & CS

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 24000rpm, Feb 4, 2016.

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  1. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #1 24000rpm, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    1st, when I hook it up with a leonardo , it shows a "gearbox oil temperature"
    This temperature is never to be seen by a driver, so my question is, what does the ECU use this value for? And where is the temperature sensor located? I can't find it on any diagram.


    2nd, I understand that the challenge stradale MAF has a different housing than the Modena.
    But is the CS insert interchangeable with the Modena insert? Is the CS insert is also superior to the 360, performance wise? Today I installed my Modena MAF inserts into my CS and didn't notice anything different while driving the CS.

    3rd, when engine is idling, is the gearbox input shaft rotating with the flywheel in the following scenarios:
    a. foot on brake, gear= N
    b. foot NOT on brake, gear = N

    Reason im asking is that when I was trying to use the "gearbox primary input RPM" to adjust the PIS, i found that sometimes this value will be equal to the engine rpm and sometimes not. so I want to find out what's happening.

    4th, see picture, I noticed there's a connector hanging around the OBD2 port ( picture shows OBD2 port plugged with scantool). What is this thing for? Did it come from the factory like that(modena leftover) or pervious owner did some mod?
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  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,330
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    360trev
    #2 360trev, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'll answer question no 1. first...

    See diagram, since the engine oil flow goes through the engine and gearbox on the 360 its actually used as the combined engine/gearbox oil temperature sensor. (see item 2 on diagram 2, or item 25T on first diagram)

    You can see from the pictures, its directly wired to the Ignition Computers so it can determine if the oil is warm so it can adjust its air/fuel compensation maps accordingly. The Dashboard clocks show Oil Pressure (a different VDO sensor located at the base of the oil filter).

    Ferrari Part no. is 104628, however there are many manufacturers that make this part at a fraction of the price. Its been used for decades on other hundreds of car models across multiple manufacturers so many substitution Part no. exist from many manufacturers.

    Here's the main substitute part numbers (there may be more, these are a fraction of the price of the Ferrari part number so useful if you ever wanted to swap it).
    FIAT 7 542 186
    FIAT 7 548 005
    FIAT 7 588 803
    FIAT 7 588 883
    INTER MOTOR 52402
    FACET 7.3084 (73084)
    BERU 0824121154
    BERU ST097
    CALORSTAT WS2511
    EBERSPACHER 90.094.03
    ERA 330102
    FAE 31590
    HAVAM 1.830.084
    HELLA 6PT 009 107-621
    LUCAS SNB177
    MARELLI 116596489902
    OE EPS1830084
    PEX 3.40.080
    VALEO 700041
    VEMO V24-72-0027
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  3. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    interesting enough , so the temperature reading is really what the engine oil temperature is. The actual 75w90 oil temperature isn't measured

     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    I'll take the 4th Question next...

    -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut
    4th, see picture, I noticed there's a connector hanging around the OBD2 port ( picture shows OBD2 port plugged with scantool). What is this thing for? Did it come from the factory like that(modena leftover) or pervious owner did some mod?
    -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut -- cut

    Its not a modification, it is a diagnostics port that's standard on the factory wiring loom, its used to test port for the Digitek Dashboard Clocks.
     
  5. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
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    Eric DECOUX
    The gearbox oil is warmed up and cooled down by the coolant in the heat exchanger located in the middle of the 2 banks. So, I though that the TCU was doing an assessment of the oil temperature based on the coolant temperature. May be it uses also the engine oil temp. I never checked with the Texa to which of those temperatures the gearbox oil was the closest.

    The oil temperature sensor is directly linked to the dash, not the engine ECUs. The oil temp is then broadcasted on the CAN bus which makes it available for the ECU/TCU which have to use it.
     
  6. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    cooling down or heating up 75w90 oil is not small feast. it would take a while.

    take my other daily driver for an example(it has oil temp, transmission oil temp and coolant temp on dash), i drove like 50 miles and the transmission oil temp is still 45 C. that was driven on a 5 c degree weather

    I'll try to see if the "gearbox oil temp" is really the engine oil temp by looking at the mechanic gauge next time.


     
  7. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    Thanks Eric,
    I did originally think the Oil Temp worked the way you described (I haven't actually snooped/sniffed the Dash CAN bus to determine precise messages sent yet) but I then recall that once I took out completely my Dashboard clocks out when I was trying to diagnose a fault (I actually physically disconnected the entire set of looms) and the car still started up and ran just fine without them! And thus without Oil Temperature readings it seems!

    ...This made me think that it would have been more logical for the Bosch Ignition computers to read them but obviously that is not the case. It makes me think that maybe they just ran out of spare GPIO pins on the Ignition ECU's so felt it was easier to read the temp's in with the Dashboard clocks ecu then relay the readings from there over CAN to both the TCU and Ignition ECU's. Or perhaps they wanted both Ignition computers to get the message at the precise same time so they where synchronized? I'm just guessing..

    The fact the engine ran just fine without the oil temp reading must means that the Bosch ignition computers must do something else to determine or try to estimated engine operating temps (i.e. estimate them based on other outputs like o2 sensors)? Do you have any more details?

    -T
     
  8. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #8 24000rpm, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i have a little double checking today and got something I can't understand

    as shown in picture(sorry for the bad quality)

    the oil temperature on the dash just passed 50 C, maybe 55 or so.
    and the reading on the leonardo for "gearbox oil temperature" is just 27 C

    water temperature on the dash is conforming the reading on the leonardo

    so this 27 C must be from some other sensor I believe ( it did goes up while the car is warming up and up)


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