received wack balancing job with damaged wheels

For proper balancing of a wheel, it may become necessary to add weights at both locations, the outside and the inside of the rim. You will also notice that they are in different positions.

These adhesive weights are "modern", I hate them as well. If one wants the classical ones (clamped at the rim), then you probably have to order that explicitely (and at additional costs). Technically, the adhesive weights are better, since they neither get lost, nor lead to slow flats, like the classical ones occasionally (but rarely!) did.

Yes those guys often scratch the wheel when removing the old adhesive weights. In the alternative, you have ugly remainders of the adhesive visible. Which are nearly impossible to remove without harming the paint coat.

At least here http://www.hofmann-powerweight.com/index.php?site=news&detail=24 you can obtain weights in various colors.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

BS. I took the sticky weights off the inside of the 360 wheels that came on my 348 before I refinished them. Got them off cleanly and without issue, simply takes a little time and effort...most times those tire shop guys don't care/and or are just simply lazy.

 

Lazy/sloppy techs often do not remove the old weights, they just keep adding more weights to the wheel to overcome the imbalance caused by the old ones.

Placing weights as far to the inside and outside of the wheel as possible can reduce the amount of weight required and result in a better balance job. However, if there is not enough room on the outer rim, or you just hate having the weights visible, a dual plane balance can still be achieved by placing stick-on weights as far to the outside of the *back of the wheel* as possible, in addition to the weights placed far inboard. Modern balancing machines allow the tech to "show it" (by use of an articulating arm) exactly where on the wheel the weights will be placed, and the machine will then use those planes when calculating the weight needed. So, while it's somewhat better practice to place weights on the outer rim, it's certainly not a necessity for a good balance job in most cases.

Incidentally, a rule of thumb passed along by an old school tire tech is that an alloy car wheel should not require more than two ounces of lead on either plane to achieve a perfect balance. If it requires more weight than that, the tire should be rotated on the wheel 180 degrees and another balancing attempt made. I strive for less than two ounces of *total weight* on any wheel, and it sometimes requires trying four positions of the tire on the wheel to achieve this. But sometimes we get lucky and find a position that requires no weights at all, which is like hitting the balancing lottery. BTW, this rule of thumb only applies to quality alloy wheels used on cars-- big wheels and tires on a 4x4 typically require tons more weight to balance.

Stick-on weights are desirable because they can be removed with no damage to the finish if care is taken, unlike the old school pound-on weights which will almost certainly scratch the finish when installed. Unfortunately, unless you find a tech who does show car tire installs your wheels will almost certainly not be treated well, and it is common for wheels to be scratched when the weights are removed. To remove stick-on weights without damage first soften the adhesive with an adhesive remover (I like 3M Adhesive Remover) for several minutes (the longer the better). Then use a plastic scraper or dental floss to remove the weight. With a little time and patience stick-on weights can be removed without damaging even a soft finish. If there's any adhesive remaining on the wheels the 3M product will make quick work of removing it.

There is a downside to stick-on weights though, but again it is due to sloppy techs rather than a defect in the design of the weights. Most techs don't make the effort to properly clean the surface of the wheel before applying the weights, making them more likely to fly off over time.

All of this is why I demand stick-on weights when my wheels are balanced. It is also why I remove the wheels myself, clean them with proper wheel cleaner (not auto store stuff) front and back, remove all of the old weights using the procedure above, and then re-clean and degrease the wheels before taking them (loose) to have new tires mounted. I then reinstall the wheels myself, hand torquing them to the appropriate spec, instead of using the rattle bars that most tire guys use.

If you are unwilling or unable to remove and clean your own wheels but you still want a top quality job, you will have to talk to a number of techs to find one willing to do what you want. Expect to pay by the hour for the service because it takes several times longer to do the job right than it does to do it the way the tire stores typically do it. You can sometimes find a tech who is willing to give you special attention (as long as the store is not busy at the time) in exchange for tips. Those guys don't get to keep much of the money the store charges for mounting and balancing, so giving them an extra $10 per tire under the table means a bunch to them. I tip the tech if he does a good job, even though I pre-clean my wheels and show up with them in the bed of a truck. I also try to build a relationship with a good tire tech so that he gets to know my expectations, which they are usually happy to try to meet because they know it means extra cash in their pocket.

HTH.

 

Great stuff here! Thanks.

 

If they were not properly glued initially, right (except for the "BS"). For example if the wheel surface has not been properly cleaned with a solvent prior to application.

Of course I do not know whether in the US the glue is different and adapted to rotational forces corresponding to 60 mph only ....

I will have to try this 3M stuff. I have several wheels with remainders of the stickers, which have shown quite stubborn to the solvents I tried.

Yes, if they know the customer, his expectations and know that good work is appropriately tipped, that will likely give best results.

 

The only answer I can think of why does it still shake and it was fine before is they slightly bent one or more wheels while it was in for service the first time. I'm sorry as it seems unlikely they will ever admit to this.

Make sure the discount tire place did a "road force balance" on your wheels. If not go back and have them do it and watch. Look to see if the wheels look bent- they will wobble on the assembly as it spins. The road force will show you any flat spots on the wheels and also the tires.

I would be careful of these places as they are often about speed of getting you in and out and things like the scraping can happen. I've never had it happen but I go to the same trusted 2-3 shops I've been working with for 15+ years for things like this. A long time ago I had something similar happen so I am aware of the really crummy feeling you have because you were just doing the right thing to have your car serviced and now you have this headache.

 

Yes, the enormous amount of weights speaks for a bent wheel. Normally tires are so well made nowadays that only light balancing becomes necessary.

 

Heat gun followed by mild solvent or adhesive remover and elbow grease, done. Again, those tire place guys are generally lazy and they (tire places) make more the more product they move or tires they change. If you have nice wheels that you want to keep nice you really have to find a place that "cares" these days

 

Tire balancing, good food, getting your Ferrari fixed or good medical care all have something in common, don't expect it to be good for free.

I don't care what it is, shop for quality if you want a good job and don't ***** when the free work or low bidder did not deliver perfection.

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with this.

Aftermarket wheels, even the best ones are often not perfectly round. As for tires, it's not uncommon to spin the tire on the wheel to get it to balance correctly.



What work was performed the first visit to the dealership? ( The 1st trip when you noticed the vibration on your way home )

Yes, the weights can be painted black or even to match your wheel color. May cost a little more but worth it for sure.

The wheel weights also come off the wheel easily with the correct equipment and chemicals

These are a few items that lead to a perfect balance:

1. Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer
2. Plastic wheel weight removal tool
3. Clean Prep - 3M adhesive remover
4. Stick on wheel weights


Also notice the black dot on the rim and red dot on the tire. That's how the factory knows where to place the tire / rim together in order to get the optimal balance.
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^^^^ This!

S

 

Did the tires have balancing dots on them?

Edit.. ooops was mentioned

 

I think I found your problem.

 

All good info above, also your wheels look like they are a flat black color.
You can probably take them off, clean them well, clean the weights with alcohol and then tape off the wheel and spray paint the weights the same color of the wheel.
No one will notice uxecpt you.

Discount tire store story, had my Jag tires balanced and rotated, this was awhile back and they used the old style pound on weights. Did not even make it 100 yards and heard a loud "whack" in the rear wheel well ?
Looked in the mirror and saw the wheel weight bouncing down the street. Turned around picked it up, drove back and walked up to the counter saying "this just flew off my car" same guy I was just talking to ........slightly pissed.
THEN I got some fast efficient service, and I watched them closely.

 

This past summer I had to get 2 new tires for my Jag XKR. Needed rears at 295/30-20 so I looked for a local shop who had the latest balancing system. Found a new shop that had new roadforce hunter system. I removed and brought in the wheels. Used a plastic paint scraper and some Goo-gone to remove the weights. I asked the shop foreman to have his best guy do the job and I wanted to watch. I had mounted and balanced my own tires in my youth but didn't want to tackle 20" stuff. I watched him check the wheels for out of round or bent condition. Checked the tires and he mounted them. I wanted the balance done with inside weights which he had no problem doing. One tire was a problem so he dismounted it and rotated the tire on the wheel. Re-balanced it and all was good. I need to replace the 2 front tires this spring and will do the same thing. It all comes bact to a reputable shop with tech's that want to do a good job.

 

With that much weight, they should have spun the tire around a quarter from the valvestem to see if it reduces the amount of needed weight.

A few other bits:
Static Balancing - weights on the inside only.
Dynamic Balancing - weights on inside and outside of the wheel.

If you ever see a wheel balanced with weights on two areas of one side - that is incorrect and is counter balanced. Weights need to be removed and rebalanced.