LM002 RHD Rolling restoration.. will be updated regularly

For the upper chains? I think, it was for a "Diablo style" engine.
This engine has no lower chain, just gears, like on LP400/5000S L406 2V.
That's the key mechanical difference between DD and EFI LM002.
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Anyone have the wheel offset in handy?
11x17 PCD 8x150 but I forget the offset. Thanks

 

if you take a look at the pictures on the link, you can see that the tensioner arm fails on earlier cars, not sure when they did an upgrade, but at some stage mine (LA12187) has had the timing chain, tensioners and rubbing strips replaced, and it looks like the carb version had a different setup as they have no rubbing strip in the top of the cam box.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rwwmd/sets/72157622732751803/ if the link does not work, google evans auto LM002

 

if you look at the right timing chain diagram above, there looks to be something wrong with it, the crank rotates clockwise, in this picture the chain tensioner is between the crank and first jockey sprocket, and the same applies to the tensioners between the jockey and the cams, the tensioners are always working on the trailing end before it gets to the point of drive, either the image has been mirrored or the men at Lamborghini got something very wrong, maybe that is why the early units used to fly in pieces!!!! don't think so

 

Hi Taffy,

I got window motors from the people in the link, part mt4520-00-002 and mt4520-00-001
https://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AEOS&Product_Code=mt4520-00-002

 

Hi Nick.
Yes that is the correct power window motor replacement.

 

I might be missing your point, but I don't see anything wrong with the tensioners...

The critical timing is controlled by the crankshaft sprocket "pulling" on the chain from the camshaft sprockets...you never want a tensioner there because the valve timing will change over time (with chain and sprocket wear)...plus you'd need a pretty robust tensioner to counteract the pull from the crank. The tensioners in the above picture are "on the backside" of the drive...where they won't affect timing...where they are on pretty much all chain or belt drive systems.

The crankshaft is the driving force that acts by pulling the chain from the camshafts. It doesn't push the chain to the camshafts.

Again, I apologize if I'm missing the issue.

 

There have been many motors made with manual tensioners on the tension side of the chain.

 

The examples I'm aware of use such a manual tensioner to make up for component wear...along with a floating (hydraulic or spring) tensioner on the "other" side. As the sprockets and chains wear, the manual tensioner can effectively restore the valve timing. I would call them more of an adjustable guide than a tensioner, but that might just be semantics. I'm not aware of any engines that exclusively use a tensioner on the timing side.

I haven't seen every solution to every problem, but my original point was that the system as illustrated doesn't appear to have any inherent weaknesses like was suggested. I'd love to see other solutions if you could point me towards them.

 

I am reasonably familiar with what a chain tensioner is. Manufacturers have used real live chain tensioners on the tension side.

 

to clarify, we are viewing the engine looking at the front, and the crank is rotating clockwise, then the first sprocket after the crank is the tensioner, the same applies to the camshafts. To my way of thinking the tensioner should be after the drive jockey or the cams to avoid variation in the valve timing. I am saying the drawing is wrong, it has been mirrored but before the ref numbers were put on. if you are in doubt of what I am saying here, there is a very clear picture taken in Evans Auto when they do repairs on a failed LM002 timing chain!!!! it clearly shows the crank chain tensioner bottom left, not bottom right as in the drawing.

 

to clarify, we are viewing the engine looking at the front, and the crank is rotating clockwise, then the first sprocket after the crank is the tensioner, the same applies to the camshafts. To my way of thinking the tensioner should be after the drive jockey or the cams to avoid variation in the valve timing. I am saying the drawing is wrong, it has been mirrored but before the ref numbers were put on. if you are in doubt of what I am saying here, there is a very clear picture taken in Evans Auto when they do repairs on a failed LM002 timing chain!!!! it clearly shows the crank chain tensioner bottom left, not bottom right as in the drawing, all I am trying to point out is that the drawing is wrong.

 

I'm not doubting you or your knowledge. Quite the contrary...I'd simply like to know what some examples are based on your experience so I can investigate a bit to satisfy my own curiosities. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how a dynamic tensioner can NOT affect valve timing if on the tension side.

 

I looked at the Evans website...now I see what you are saying.

 

Does anyone know what is the cause of timing chain failure, the Evans Auto shows the top guide rail that fits face down between the two top sprockets is missing, this is broken-up, one piece hanging down the side of the front cover, but there is also signs of excessive slack on the top chains, is this caused by weak chains or low oil pressure.

 

After spending time on the web trying to understand what might be the cause of timing chain failure, I found an article about 93 Diablo engine work, with pictures, and the chain diagram that I said was wrong might apply to the diablo (see image), the chain and tensioners are exactly as diagram, but also they show the tensioners being mechanically adjusted, so people who say the LM002 motor is part Countach and part Diablo could be right. the re-builder of the Diablo motor tells us that BMW valve seals are the same as the Diablo $50 a set.
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Just to make things more confusing, take a look at the same motor fitted with the new tensioner on the primary chain, it has a mechanical adjustor and a third bolt that I assume works as a pinch bolt when the tension is set.
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So far, I got the engine fixed, rebuilt and tuned the webers (equal, but still a little rich).
I've done various aesthetical stuff to remove the 2000s tuning crap from the interior, so after few days I might finally post some pics for fun.

I'm gonna do a better report to share my experience and some blueprint.

Still there are some problems:
- the speedo won't work
- I've got some mess in the interior light: the central buttons light up strangely, they don't work well. I got the central buttons from a FI car, and it seems like the hazards lights are also different (and they don't work much, although connected properly - the numbers on wires/button match up)
- the engine doesn't really GO after 4000 RPM as it probably should, it works fine up to 4000 RPM and then it is like "okay", but that's not right probably.

Since I don't have the Malpassi fuel pressure regulators, I had to borrow my friend's Biturbo regulator and run 2x fuel filters, which may cause the restriction. But what if it's an in-tank fuel pickup issue? Where should I be looking at? I'm on 1/4 of the tank, so I'm cool, just some 50 liters left. Haha.

I'll be back soon, just want to hear your experience, especially with Webers.
I thought maybe it a timing advance issue, but I've set it at 8 degrees, all plugs and wires are good. The only thing is that I haven't lubed the advance weights.

Thanks,
Alex.

 

If anyone can get. I am interested.

Thanks,

Taz

 

Yep, that's what I'm talking about.
Carb LM002 has a 25th Countach engine. I.e. timing, block, liners, water pump, and etc.
FI LM002 has a Diablo engine.
You even got different direction of rotation on the cams.

I'd like to thank Chad as he helped me to sort things out and guided me at first steps. He's the man.

And so a carbed LM002 engine has nothing to do with FI, only valves and heads are common. You have to manually adjust the chains on a 25th Countach engine, and it is somewhat easy until you are out of the eccentric. That's what happened to my engine.

It was serviced before by some mechanics, although they've managed to take one head off (which is quite a task, as pulling nuts from the main cylinder head studs is impossible without the very special wrenches), they have not tensioned the chains properly! Also they have lost various small, but important parts like the cross-coupling (x-coupling) which drives the auxilary oil pump off the rear of the right head cam (so it was not driven anyhow), also they have lost both Malpassi fuel pressure regulators and ran the engine without them - through a VW/Audi fuel filter can...

I'm glad that the cylinder head gasket is not leaking, that's great. Other than that, the chains had so much slack so they were eating the valve covers off! That was quite a sound! Imagine what was in the oil... It is good at some point that they have lost the x-coupling, as the oil cooler probably did not have the aluminum powder in there.

I was able to tension the existing chains, although they'd need to be changed after some time. When you run out of the eccentric, you need to remove the eccentric arm and put the "telephone" in the other position.

It was easy on the left side, but it wasn't as easy on the right side, as I thought I'd need to pull the water pump to get to there. Luckily, I was wrong, I had enough space to get the eccentric (aka tensioner) after cutting the small, but extra thick hose in between the water pump and block inlet.

 

Those seem to be NLA, are they?

BTW, I had problems with window motors too. I've found out that the motors themselves are not the case. The problem is in the plastic rollers that roll in the guides. They seem to swell up and then the rollers can't rotate in the guides which makes the motors stressed. I just made the guides a little wider, lubed all the guides and rollers and the problem was gone. I thought the windows would move a little tilted due to the excessive clearance in the guides (when rollers swell up, they have a much bigger shaft clearance), but they did not!

But one motor was out of service! I disassembled it, the collector brushes were okay, the dirt had shorted the collector in some places, but after cleaning and few tests it turned out that the collector itself wasn't good: 2 pairs of the collector segments had infinite resistance (winding break), so when the motor stopped in these areas it had no current to spin the rotor.

Since the motors are extremely rare and since I couldn't source a breaker who had a Rover SD1 or a Peugeot 505 on hand, an outlook to be left with a dead window motor and an opened window is not good. Sooo I just shorted the segments that had a winding break and strangely enough it worked out! The motor would spin, well, not as good as others, but much better than nothing! Meaning, I lubed the guides (the old lube was like sticky butter!) and now can get the window up and down, just not as fast.

 

Just to clear things out, the Countach/Carb LM engine is only adjustable on the non-tensioned side. The water pump sprocket (for example) is not adjustable and is the one that is tensioned.

Although the Diablo engine has got quite odd chain routing.

 

Some dirty pics. the mess was later cleaned off and things restored, don't worry.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ0shn_q2FI[/ame]
Zero slack. Like I said.

The tensioner eccentric left and right.
The right adjuster arm with the telephone holes for pin.

You need to rotate it counter-clockwise and check the chain frequently. And you really need to pull the chain hard to get the full slack in between the cams, otherwise it may fool you that the chain is okay.
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The cross-coupling is a vital thing for oil cooling.

The pic was done through a mirror, as you can't see the back of the engine.
You have a key groove on the cam, same on the pump.

Me and mechanics thought that it's not gonna be driven without something else in between. A look in the parts catalogue concluded that we are missing a part, which we could lose in the disassembly, rather it could have been lost in previous re-assembly (when the right head was serviced).

So I've found an early Countach x-coupling with one positive and one negative side (for a key), so I got the basic idea. It's a simple small part, I'd rather machine one than wait to get it. But I needed dimensions. Since nobody had the one on hand to measure, I got a modeling clay, checked the clearance numerous times, made a simple drawing and blueprint so my machinist would get the idea. And so 2 of these were made. I got 2nd one because I didn't want it to be too slacky (as it turned out with the 1st), keep within 0.2-0.3 of the rotation play. Yet you don't want 2 cams to push against each other, so I made it a little shorter that 5.0 mm.

Well, it worked out!
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Next I'd like to say some words about the air pre-filter. Those crack because they got too much interference fit on the lower base part.
It wasn't easy to set on the lathe, but we managed to machine the base, so there would be very very light interference fit, so they won't crack anymore.

The transparent pre-filter parts were restored as much as it was possible: cleaned, glued, made transparent again. I'll show the pre-filters assembled when they are finally on the car.


I don't think it was an extremely wise idea to use aluminum alternator pulleys on a desert combat vehicle. It sorta wears out pretty much!!!
I've made some steel pulleys, although you can make them titanium or properly cold-anodized aluminum.
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