Ferrari 360 - Noisy Intake Butterflies | FerrariChat

Ferrari 360 - Noisy Intake Butterflies

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by kommons, Mar 14, 2016.

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  1. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    #1 kommons, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've noticed the some 360's have noisy butterflies and some do not. Mine is one of those noisy ones.

    In an effort to correct it, I followed Aldous' blog, where he replaced the bushes for the butterfly rods. I also changed the linkage rods with billet ends as there was significant play in the ends.

    After replacing the bushes, the butterfly rod still had the same amount of play as it did before. The original (and new) bushes are made from a self-lubricating metal and there wasn't any real wear to them. I just replaced them as that was Aldous' solution.

    Ended up just putting everything back together and it seems to make even more noise than it did before. Perhaps it's the billet linkage rods as they are likely transfering more vibration.

    Video of noise - https://youtu.be/zrtUGpGP8yA

    I'm of the mentality that these butterfly rods are simply not machined to tight tolerances and custom bushes would be needed to be made for each rod.

    However, I'm curious if any of you guys have tackled it and successfully stopped the noise.
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  2. mgv1

    mgv1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2006
    496
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Mark V
    #2 mgv1, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    The rattling is usually caused by the end float of the butterfly valve rods and not the exposed rods on the underneath. I'll send you a PM but your inbox is full so you need to delete some.
     
  3. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
  4. jackgt

    jackgt Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2015
    499
    california
    Full Name:
    Jack
    If you have replaced all of the fulcrums, would it not be the actuator? I have never looked but with a mirror can you see the actuator pulsing?
     
  5. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    Is that the original red crinkle paint on those covers, or did you have it recently refinished? It looks brand new in the video.
     
  6. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    @jackgt - The actuator works, it really makes noise during idling. I was moving it manually to see if I could capture the sound stopping.
    @rugby - Original paint, telephone boosts colors a bit, but I also use 303UV protectant which enrichens the red.
     
  7. mgv1

    mgv1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2006
    496
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Mark V
    No, that's the wrong part. In your fourth photo down you need to shim the end of the rod (both banks have a rod). The the lateral sliding play that makes the butterfly plates rattle if there is slop. I sent an emil with instructions as your PM box is full, send me a message if you didn't get it.
     
  8. pourquoi_ne

    pourquoi_ne Karting

    Mar 16, 2006
    224
    England
    Full Name:
    John
    I did the job twice. Second time I replaced the bushes and used high quality ball joint ends. Very happy with results! It could be end float that contributes to the noise but I think its a combination of problems.
     
  9. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    What do you mean by "ball joint ends"? The linkage rods I showed above? Did replacing the bushes end of being the fix for you? Which did you use?
     
  10. pourquoi_ne

    pourquoi_ne Karting

    Mar 16, 2006
    224
    England
    Full Name:
    John
    Yes linkage rods but with top quality ends. I used standard plain bushes with a split down the long side.
     
  11. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2012
    1,043
    Malaysia
    some great photos up there....and some confusing names of various parts by various members.....can someone kindly show which exact part(parts) cause the rattling?
    besides the slightly irritating noise, like that of a printing press, is there any harm in not addressing the issue?
    thank you
     
  12. pourquoi_ne

    pourquoi_ne Karting

    Mar 16, 2006
    224
    England
    Full Name:
    John
    There was harm in me not addressing the issue - it was doing my head in!! Sitting in front a multi thousand pound (dollar!) sewing machine was not my idea of fun!
     
  13. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2012
    1,043
    Malaysia
    can you please post this information here or PM me....thank you....i'm trying to understand this issue...cheers
     
  14. pourquoi_ne

    pourquoi_ne Karting

    Mar 16, 2006
    224
    England
    Full Name:
    John
    You've got all you need on this thread, I believe. The rattling noise is a caused by a combination of several things - worn plain bushes in casting that run the rods with the butterfly valves on, the amount of end float on these rods (adjustable by shimming) and play in the ball ends on the linkage rods. If you can live with the rattle then don't worry, drive on and save yourself loads of money (if you have to pay to have the work done by a shop) If you are worried and don't have a load of money do it yourself. Its fiddly, time consuming but doable.
     
  15. bikz

    bikz Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2012
    1,043
    Malaysia
    #15 bikz, Mar 26, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
    thanks john...kinda getting my head around it..... cheers mate....i don't have this issue as of yet.....but just trying to understand what causes it and if i have to cross that bridge one day, at least i'll know what's going on!!!

    ps : what does "the amount of end float" mean? what is an end float? sorry for my ignorance.
     
  16. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    End Float is the amount of "play" along the axis (parallel) of a rotating assembly.

    Rod
    ---()-----()----
    ---()-----()----|<-- % -->| Amount of movement in the direction of those arrows.

    I ordered bronze sleeve bearings 1mm smaller so that I can bore it out to match the rod (given some space for rotation) I will update the thread if this solves it.

    mgv1's solution is to remove end float on the rod by adding spacers. This has worked for him, however I still feel that this is perhaps just loading the rod and not solving the issue of too much clearance between rod and bearing. I'm chasing this because I can, it doesn't effect functionality in any way, just an annoying sound.

    Ferrari does have several part numbers for those intakes, the stack design changed over the years from a 2 piece to a single piece polished but not sure of other changes.
     
  17. pourquoi_ne

    pourquoi_ne Karting

    Mar 16, 2006
    224
    England
    Full Name:
    John
    Those rods have a springy flat washer to take out the endfloat. I bought more of those non- springy washers from Ferrari. (The washers are not listed in connection with these rods but are listed on the big butterfly valve). I took out most of the endfloat with the washers leaving just enough gap for the springy one not to be flattened. That worked fine.
     

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