Was Eddie Irvine a worse No. 2 than Felipe Massa

Well, Although Eddie was a good driver (i wouldd say on a pair with Rubens) he was far behing Berger and alesi. Remenber Berger was fighting it out with Senna, Prost mansell, Piquet, when he had Mansell as team mate, he was every bit as fast as the english (until his accident)...he went to Mclaren, and even if Ayrton was better, Gerhard was able to beat him from time to time, both on qualifying and in race day....to be able to beat Ayrton and mansell in the same car, even if only from time to time you have to be very, very, very good.....As for Alesi, he was even better than Berger. They spent 5 years as team mates, 3 at ferrari and 2 on benetton, of those 5, alesi came on top 4 times, and the one he misses was in 94, when he had to miss a couple of races due to a back injury from a test accident. Many here forgot it but in 95, untill almost 3 thirds of the championship, jean actualy was fighting for the title, agains a vastly superior williams and benetton. He was to my mind the best driver i ever saw in the rain (after Gilles), he was at least every bit as good as Shummy or Ayrton, and in changing conditions i figure he was better....i will never forget suzuka 95 when he was chasing Shumacher, taking about 3 sec a lap before transmission failed..... To me Jean was better than Hakkinen and in a competitive car he would give Michael a run for his money, as he sometimes did, when his Ferrari alowed it.

 

I would choose Felipe Massa over Eddie Irvine any time of the day.

Irvine was a dilettante; Massa shows more commitment.

 

Having made my comparaison between eddie and Berger or Alesi, let's go for the next 3, Trulli, Fisichela and Coulthard. From those 3, Trulli was clearly a cut above, Trulli was one of the fastest drivers from the last 20 years, he proved more than often to be faster than Alonso, and he was amazing trough Monaco, when he finaly got a deserved win ion 2004. Ultimatly his carrer was destroyed By Briatore once the old slob figured that Jarno was beating Alonso, and in so, diminuishing the value of his new golden boy....He did some foine races at Toyota but that team never coeresponded to his expectations, the arrival of ralph Shumacher managed to destroy the team, making Gascoigne to leave....only problem with Jarno was he had many days of, but on his day, he would take afight to anyone...a sort of René Arnoux of the modern days.
Giancarlo was very much talented but clearly lacked the killer instinc, a good driver but no more than that, i would say he was on a pair with Eddie (although more naturaly talented)...as for D.c, i think he was below the others...but not by much, between him, Giancarlo and Eddie there was not much to choose from...

 

I really don't think that's true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtCXmrSn24o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzbJMnW7Eco



Massa over Irvine any day of the week. Massa before his accident could put up a good fight verses just about anyone including MS. He beat Kimi fair and square in 08. As far as who could take the fight to a prime MS you guys are forgetting JPM. When the Williams was quick MS had his hands full.

 

Yap..JPM was very, very good, a true talent....he never really fitted in williams (i guess like Frentzen before him, they waisted a true gem) and at Mclaren it was total disaster...

 

Yes, for once I agree with Pedro! (even if I strongly disagree with his statement above that Alesi was better than Hakkinen...)

I really, really liked JPM; I still do follow his career. His Formula One career was a missed opportunity; but I have to say that I remember Patrick Head saying that if Mansell could be a handful outside of the car, it was nothing compared to the mayhem that JPM brought in the pits...

Rgds

 

Irvine beats Massa by a mile. Not even close.

 

It would appear there's many here who beg to differ. Me included, FWIW.

Cheers,
Ian

 

This thread got me thinking about how high the quality the drivers have been at Ferrari has been for so long. The only diver that i think Irvine was better than for the last 30 years was Ivan Capelli in 1992.

 

Interesting question. I have his Hot Wheels car at home. Got it in Italy in 2000.

 

I think he was better tan Rubens...

 

You think Ivan was better than Rubens? Wow!

I beg to differ.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Without the gifted WDC points Massa would have never even been a contender for the title. Irvine got super close to winning it outright in 1999.

Aside from that: I loved Eddie and his personality and I still can't stand Massa.

 

That's as maybe.

The old 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' debate......

Bottom line, 0 wdc's.

I too enjoyed his personality. Seems like a 'good guy'.

But, I've gotta say, your 'hatred' toward Phil isn't very rational IMO. Sure, we're all entitled to our opinions, but, to me at least, he comes across very well - Almost Eddie like in some ways!

Cheers,
Ian

 

I don't think Massa was particularly bad, he was actually pretty damn good. After his accident, he worked hard to get back to his former self and I think he actually did. Right until in 2010 Ferrari told him to move over to let the uni-brow pass. I think that mentally scarred him deeply and didn't get over that until he moved from Ferrari. When he got in the Williams it was all good.

Barrichello was an excellent driver too, just not as good as Schumacher (as rarely anyone was).

Irvine never made it a secret that Schumacher was better. I think Massa and Barrichello where better, too. But that doesn't make Irv a bad driver. .

Maths was never my strongest subject but I still fail to see how you get at 14 points.

Had Lewis won:

10 pts
8 for massa

Lewis drops to 3rd after penalty>

Massa wins = +2 pts
Hamilton drops 4 pts

That's a 6 point difference.

 

I too agree with the rest:

Blown engine 3 laps from the end in Hungary due to a manufacturing error, and the bad singapore errors by the team.

NEVER a contender? My ass and get real. Only reason Irvine got anywhere near the title was due to Schumacher having been completely out of the picture. Schumacher came back and the very first quali he does he outqualifies the entire FIELD (including WDC contender teammate by a full second). Had Lewis kept his win, but the engine held together in Hungary or the team didn't monumentally **** up in Singapore, Hamilton would be a title poorer.

If is F1 spelled backwards, of course...but since you guys play that game so can I.

 

^^^+1 to all there Bas.

Very well stated.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Any sport is more entertaining with villains and heroes. Just ask fans from Juventus or Manchester United.

And I really dislike Massa's personality.

 

+1

I guess I choose different players for those roles.

Cheers,
Ian

 

As any fan should

 

No, i think Eddie was not Ivan !

 

Aside from that: I loved Eddie and his personality and I still can't stand Massa.[/QUOTE]

..humm, nobody saw that coming!! LOLOLO