Aren't they as close a copy to the F40 wheels as possible ? I think they look awesome on any classic 70's-80's Ferrari. As a plus they weigh almost nothing. The 288 GTO front is a sure winner and makes it stand out in the crowd - as do the lack of grill. A menacing and raw presence
Aaron, that is a fantastic job you have done. And thanks for posting your data. If you want I can plot it with the other FChat folks that have sent me data. Just pull a few numbers off your chart like this: RPM Hp Tq 2000 27 70 2500 60 118 3000 80 142 3500 95 145 4000 115 150 4500 130 150 5000 140 147 5500 155 145 6000 165 145 6500 175 142 7000 180 137 7260 182 132 I know I know I know I know that you really can't compare across different dyno's but for a stand back squinty eyed look it is fun if you want. Anyway, great job and thanks for sharing.
Awesome. I've been watching the progress of this build on FB. I bought a car from Aaron recently, and I need to see this one.
Arron, Nice job... I have been thinking about moving to E-85 but I don't have much experience with Alcohol. I have always used leaded fuel. Are there any gotcha's on using it? Do you find you can run much greater ignition timing? I too have an E-85 station down the street and have long consider tuning with it. Any issues with aluminium fuel rails, injectors, hoses or fuel pumps? Ron
E85 is corrosive, need to make sure the pump, lines and injectors are rated for it. The next issue is it's hygroscopic nature (i.e. it absorbs water), the tank will invariably pull moisture from the air and will require monitoring and excellent sealing. 308 fuel system is not exactly air tight.
Aaron, I ran your build thru the sim, don't have the PT compressor map but this result is very very close. This would be crank numbers... 630 @ 8250 467 @ 5750 Image Unavailable, Please Login
Dynomation 5 It's actually fairly accurate and worth the cost if you do engine builds. I've been using it for a couple yrs. It's also probably the easiest to use and get started with. I also have EngMod4T, that one is much much more involved, similar to a parsed down Ricardo. This one though requires some knowledge of fluid dynamics and modeling. But highly accurate and most importantly time variant in it's calculations, so for faster compiling it requires a PC with some guts. Oh and a copy of Prof Blairs book on engine design, actually that's a good book for anyone seriously interested in engine building.
smg2 - Thanks for the information. I didn't address your comments earlier about drivetrain loss. I based my guessculation (combination of guess and calculation) on dyno results of one 308's, one 328 and two 348's that were previously dyno'd on my dynojet 248. vehicle............rated.......dyno actual...% difference (1-dyno/rated) 1979 308.........205..........165.............%19.5 1987 328.........270..........222.............%17.8 1994 348Spydr.312..........258.............%17.3 1994 348B.......312..........244.............%21.8 my notes may be wrong and the second 348 may be a 1993 with the earlier heads, if so then 1994 348B.......300..........244.............%18.7 that falls in line better Also we can use my original motor in my 78, as well and the 79 listed about after he installed bypass pipes, gutted the airbox and optimized the tuning..basically creating something close to eurospec hp level (Euro cars were rated at 240, but we lack the higher compression and (rumored) larger cams, so let's estimate 230) (I'm using and estimate to calculate an estimate, how bad is that?): 1979..............230............190..............%17.4 1978..............230............189..............%17.8 That's an average of 18.3% using original ratings and drops 18.1% if you include my pseudo euro ratings. 700 *(1-.181) = 573.4whp 700 *(1-.183) = 571.9whp I'm really just showing my math and not insulted by an estimate of 630 horsepower, nor am I forcing a figure of 700hp onto anyone, because all that will really matters is that it puts 572 to the wheels. Aaron
I've been running E85 in my MR2's for a decade. Fuel lines have to be upgraded to E85 compatible material. The air tight container part is true, but in my experience is not as bad as they claim. My MR2 sat for two years with 3/4 of a tank on E85 in it. When we rebuilt the engine and reinstalled it we ran than same E85 right on through the engine with no problems. We did use an alcohol resistant coating to line the tanks of my 308. DO NOT DO THAT. The etch part of the coating works great on steel....not so much on the aluminum tanks. The coating is coming off and clogging my fuel pump pre-filter about every 100 miles. Right now we just clean and repeat until I either get it all out, or get new tanks. Aaron
On the Scion FRS, which has a HIGH stock compression ratio of 12.5:1 we are seeing gains of 15whp when switching to E85. Most of that comes from advancing the ignition timing. Summit racing publishes which fuel lines they sell are E85 compatible, and yes, some injectors are problematic too. Most OEM stuff from the last fifteen years is fine. Aaron
RPM HP TQ 2500 40 100 3000 82 140 3500 112 160 4000 160 222 4500 240 282 5000 350 360 5500 430 420 6000 480 415 6500 512 422 7000 535 400 7500 553 380 8000 572 362 8500 555 340 Please let me know where you post the plot. Thanks, Aaron
My apologies for coming across as though your build was insignificant. You've done a fantastic job and the results are impressive. You're right, crank numbers are pointless. Rated power vs actual is whole 'nother thing, esp with Ferrari and their highly optimistic if not completely fabricated numbers. The 348 and 308 do not share the same drive train layout, the 348 does indeed have a hypoid gear layout that transmits the tq 90* to the output flange resulting in a loss of ~10%. If you take your dyno results and add 10~12% you get just about spot on to the actual engine numbers the 3X8 would have. Side note, my 2 bits here: have you noticed the following? I've also done a fair number of dyno runs on inertial dynos and found that the tune is a bit on the rich side for WOT. And since steady state and cruise are not possible to tune on them we head to the test track and do it there. Once dialed in even for WOT runs in each gear, I'll end up gaining a few more HP over the dyno tuning. There is a very good possibility you could get more power by doing some refinement on the road, then head to a track and do some 1320/ft trap speed runs, easy then to calc HP from that. Proper cooling of mid/rear engine vehicles is a PITA on a dyno and results in less then optimum air flow and costs a bit of power.
You are exceedingly fortunate, must also by fairly dry where you are. Being on the coast myself the humidity is high enough to cause problems with regular fuel where the avg of 10% ethanol is collecting water in the tanks. Over the course of a yr I'll have to drain out 3~5 gallons of water in the Mercedes that honestly does sit more then it drives. Really sucks about the tanks, might be easier and better to go with new custom tanks that don't sport half a dozen brazed nipples all looking to leak air.
Aaron, wow. So when you compare your data with the others that have shared data with me it is quite a plot indeed. You my friend are in a world to yourself. What great results. It is a beast! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Looks like I gave you a little bit of wrong data on the torque. It should be: 5500 420 6000 420 6500 415 Looks like I swapped 6000 and 6500 previously. Sorry about that. Also when we did the dyno pull we didn't really start the run early enough, had we started at say 1800 we would have more valid results for 2000-3000rpm. As of now the tuning isn't great in those areas, just like SMG2 suggested we planned to optimize those on the street. The big cams are what's really killing the bottom end though, not turbo lag. The lack of bottom end power is not a big deal in the real world, this trans is geared pretty tightly and the car is basically never below 3000 rpm. Aaron
congrats: what a beast! it's impressive how with the E85 you can stand an 11.5 compression ratio. 14 PSI and 700 FWHP are almost incredible: my GTB intercooler (2 liters) has just 254 Flywheel hp with 15,5 PSI. I know your one has 11.5 compression ratio (my one just 7.5) and it's a three liters, but how is it possible that with less than 1 bar of boost your car has more than twice the OEM power? I'm just curious, as I thought you had a much higher boost pressure (1,5 bar or something like that). In any case, congrats for that impressive amount of power there is in your car! ciao
It's really about flow. The 348 heads will flow 260whp at 1 absolute atmosphere. Add in another atmosphere and you double that power to 520whp. Add in some cams and compression and voila 570whp. Isn't your 2.0 turbo still a 2V head? I think the ports are smaller than a 3.0 2V head too. Aaron
I fixed the charts. The TQ looks a bit smoother now. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Excellent! Great mods and looks killer. It's so nice to see more resto/mods. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
