456 window problem update

Daniel- Sad thing is they knew all about the problem and had a fix. They did the fix with sintered steel guides on the F355 on the production line in late 1997. Could have done the same thing with the 456/456M/550, but production rate was too low to bother. So they waited until late 2001 when the 575M came out. Inexcusable.
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The dreaded iPhone small keys strike again, My car is a 2002 build.Inexcusable is
a better choice of words than I would have used, How long have they known about the
sticky problem, the leather shrinkage, the shocks, the low radiator, the wiper arm that
caused damage to a $20.000 recessed shield hood. Yet we praise Luca like he was the
messiah I can afford my hobby but like Brian has said many times the regard that
Ferrari has for their customer beggers belief.
D.

 

Unfortunately we the unwashed are not worthy, a friend wanted a F12TDF and this is what the dealer explained to him
The be eligable to buy a F12TD, the prerequisites are, you must have bought 3 new Ferraris in the preceding 12 months and own at least 5.
This comes first hand from someone who tried to order one, but as he was a well known customer they flew him to Italy for the release of the 488 and he bought one....
His current collection would have you asking just why he wouldn't be eligible.
Lusso, 599, 430 Stad, and soon to be 488. and that's what I am aware of, and but there is a significant number of other very collectable cars.

 

But they will gladly replenish are soapdish at great expense,

 

Daniel- Here is the bulletin telling the techs to change to sintered steel guides if they have to do a valve job on a 456M or 550. They had been using these guides on the 575M for about 6 months on pre-production 575Ms when this was published.
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Terry, Thank's as always,my car used about a quart of oil a month 600 miles app,
read out says its not firing on 5cyl but no sign of smoke,
My dear friend Alfredo ozz117 on the forum a very well respected marine engineer
says without the tell tale smoke he is not convinced that its valve guide's. ?
D.

 

Daniel- You definitely need to go through the whole diagnostic trail before shelling out $10K+.

 

Will be starting that monday, oli change 5w-50 plus all new plugs then all the tests,
what was so strange was how quick it came about, played golf car sat for 5 hrs, started
and missing on 5cyl, cel was on for a week then off on its own for for the last month.
As you say time to go from A to Z.
D.

 

Daniel, my car had no telltale smoke either, but was using the same amount of oil as yours.

IIRC the exhaust guides had about 3x the allowable wear, and the intakes had 2x.

I believe this is a latent problem in all 456's and 550's. I think those who proclaim they don't have the problem have simply not pulled their heads and discovered it yet.

Only those who can put hand on heart and swear their cars are using little to no oil in 600 to 1000 miles "might" be lucky enough to not have the problem.

 

John, I am hoping as would we all but my head tells me guides, So in truth now that
my "rant" is over I look forward to the learning process, My car is a beauty and
I have had a bunch of the fix's already done, during this process should the injectors
be cleaned as well.
Daniel.

 

Daniel- Affirmative, cleaning the injectors is a good idea because alcohol seems to degrade the original seals/O-rings and the injector guys will replace those with Viton. Cost is around $250. Here are the results from mine, with three leaking pretty badly.
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Terry thanks will do, I will ask Alferdo for his imput he has a good company in Ft lauderdale
that he has used.
D.

 

I can tell you changing the valve guides is a pain. I did it a couple of years ago and it was a 6 months project. I have documented all the pictures and information on the French forum.

Before that, excessive smoke, excessive oil consumption, weird burnt oil smell outside....
So engine compression check + oil analysis confirmed to me it needed to be done.
I ordered the guides and valve seals from Nick Forza.

Removing the heads is the biggest mechanical pain I have never been through.....
Changing the valve themselves is meticulous but ok. We also refurfaced all the valves conical sealing surfaces and all the valve seats matching surfaces.
And spent around $7000 in parts, labor was free )

 

+550 !!!!!

 

John, Henri- Any thoughts that it might be easier just pulling the engine, or is that too big a bucket of worms? I know John ended up pulling his for the 6 liter conversion, at any rate, but just for a valve guide job?

 

Taz, IMO it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Both jobs are a PITA.

I had really thought that pulling the heads wouldn't be "that" bad. I was wrong.

Some guys (maybe Rustybits?) say you can lift the engine up off the mounts and slide it forward to get better access to the 2 outboard, rearmost nuts that hold the left & right heads on - that might be marginally easier than trying to do it with the engine in place.

For sure, it would be nearly impossible to get those last 2 nuts off without special tools, and even worse to get them back on & torqued without those tools.

 

I was asking myself the same question after the job.... Not easy to say as I never removed t he engine.

 

We also had to lift the engine and move it sideways. Not so much to access these famous rear f****ing nuts but mainly to remove the exhaust collectors. That was a massive headache to find a way to remove them. Maybe one evening eve to be successful. Removing the engine mount bolts and using an hidraulic piston to shift the engine a few mm in Y axis saved us.
I not we would have been stuck.
I guess they fitted in Maranello the block with the collectors in.

 

Will the 456m have the same problem with the " F****ing rear nuts.
Daniel,

 

Yes.

You'll need either the special Hill 15mm wrench & right angle adapter, or a modded 12 point 15mm wrench of your own making with a 1/2" square ratchet fitting welded on.

I initially bought a used Hill wrench & adapter, but the PO had already used it on his heads and the wrench had a loose fit, causing me to round off one nut and THAT caused a few heart palpitations. I then bought a new Hill wrench which gripped everything fine, but I couldn't manage to get it and its RA adapter onto those pesky rear nuts, so David Feinberg made up an adapter to do his (he was working on a 456 at the same time I was working on my 550), and I simply copied his design.

 

I personally am getting to old to lean over a fender fighting battles. Take the damn thing out and do it the easy way.

You must remember, these cars are designed to be put together on an assembly line. Each station has a time limit. Think of how the factory would install it, and reverse it. It's not that hard to figure out. A plan of attack before to set wrenches to anything is time well spent.

 

That is why I leave it to the professionals, I just ask questions for my own education,
A modern car that can reach the speeds and breaking capabilities that a Ferrari can
achieve should maintained by the pro's.
D.

 

LOL,
The breaking capabilities of a Ferrari are legendary, and expensive.

 

Mine is a 456MGT..... And yet there are a PITA

 

I think I know how it was installed. I have worked 7 years in Maranello on the other side of the road, in the F1 side. But I went often to road cars in my way to Copositi or the Galleria del vento