348 Master Cylinder - ABS | Page 2 | FerrariChat

348 Master Cylinder - ABS

Discussion in '348/355' started by m.stojanovic, Mar 21, 2016.

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  1. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    The ABS block - I decided not to open it but keep it complete as spare for my 348. According to my checks, it will just bolt on (with all the orifices at the right places) even though it was on the left side of the Jag MC and it is on the right side on the 348 MC (meaning flipped over 180 deg.). I checked all solenoids in the Jag ABS and they are all fine. If to be used on the 348, some work related to its 7-pin connector will have to be done. On the 348, there are 7 green wires which appear to have been soldered to the ABS connector pins (and sealed with silicone) and then connected to another connector positioned at the back of the MC-ABS assembly. Why not plug-in directly? - nobody knows.
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 23, 2016
    #26
  2. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    m.stojanovic, Mar 23, 2016
    #27
  3. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

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    Thanks :)
     
    Jackie and bill, Mar 23, 2016
    #28
  4. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    I think I have to correct myself with regard to the Jaguar JLM11336 ABS Kit. I wrongly assumed that it means just the 4 small O-rings. It actually means a complete new ABS block with the 4 small O-rings included. This complete set is priced at $250. I attach the Jaguar bulletin I mentioned earlier.
    View attachment Jag ABS Valve Block Assembly.pdf
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    m.stojanovic, Mar 23, 2016
    #29
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    Fantastic thread!
     
    ernie, Mar 23, 2016
    #30
  6. brent Lachelt

    brent Lachelt Formula 3

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    Great stuff, thanks! I'm never getting rid of my 348.
     
    brent Lachelt, Mar 23, 2016
    #31
  7. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    Absolutely not. If we cannot find a way to fix the ATE MC-ABS, we will go the American Hot-Rod route (see the pics below). These kits run in the same way as the 348 system, except that they do not have ABS (better?), and the slim MC can easily be installed in the 348. Also, I believe that these companies will sell only the MC. There is no need to buy their electric pump and accumulator as the MC can just be connected to the existing 348's pump. The MC ports are inch thread but they can probably supply them with metric threads. If not, brake adapters for conversion inch to metric are available.

    Fancy that highly polished Hot-Rod MC under the hood of your Ferrari?
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 24, 2016
    #32
  8. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    m.stojanovic, Mar 24, 2016
    #33
  9. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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    Interesting find! Theoretically you would leave the actuator body in place bolted to the "firewall" as it pretty much just connects the pedal to the MC, remove the Ferrari MC/ABS solenoid unit and then see if the hot rod MC would fit in it's place. Even if all that works then you still have the nasty job of trying to get the brake lines re-routed to go into the new MC. Are all brake line fittings the same thread or are there metric and standard variants?
     
    pnicholasen, Mar 24, 2016
    #34
  10. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    That was also my thinking. Keep the Actuator body (after removing everything from it) and bolt the new MC to it. I believe that the ABS Power Brake Inc. (their MC is not ABS, just the name of the company) would be able to custom make their MC to suit the two threaded holes in the ATE Actuator Body and possibly also the threaded brake line ports. Two ports on the ATE ABS Block are M10x1.0 (front brakes) and one (for the rear brakes) is, I think M12xSomething.
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 24, 2016
    #35
  11. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    Or you can even keep the original actuator piston (and the fork) and just cut the pushrod (if long enough) of the Power Brake's MC to suit and engage it into the recess in the face of the ATE Actuator piston. The recess is 13 mm deep, rounded at the bottom (he piston is on the left of the picture).
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 24, 2016
    #36
  12. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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    There's even more to ponder... Looks like for $1200.00 or so you get the MC, and the pump with motor and accumulator. I just checked Ricambi and as far as I can tell the pump with motor alone goes for $2500.00. So if your brake pressure pump died, one wonders if you could substitute the above unit and save $$$. Hmmmm...
     
    pnicholasen, Mar 24, 2016
    #37
  13. bmxracer50

    bmxracer50 Karting Owner Silver Subscribed

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    I thought I had seen similar setups in other cars, sure enough, Teves MK2 ABS is in all kinds of early 90's cars. ABS not being mandatory back then, was an expensive option and it could be difficult to find these in the wrecking yard, that and the cars are 25 years old now. Here's a list: ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS) SYSTEM APPLICATION CHART disclaimer: not sure if all of these have the electric pump, but some of them do for sure.
     
    bmxracer50, Mar 24, 2016
    #38
  14. bmxracer50

    bmxracer50 Karting Owner Silver Subscribed

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    Another avenue may be to email the Ate folks and see if they can provide rebuild kit. It isn't in their catalog, but they sure seem willing to help keep old stuff on the road. ATE Brakes -ATE Classic

    Once upon a time I worked for Continental, but I failed to make contacts in the brakes side of the house. Regret ��
     
    bmxracer50, Mar 24, 2016
    #39
  15. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    I am sure that the Power Brake Inc. pump can be plumbed in. The only question is the pressure it operates at (pressure switch settings). 348's pump switches off at 2600 psi and switches on again at 2000 psi. Power Brake do not mention the switch settings, only say that the system operates at more than 2000 psi at maximum output (something to check with them).

    Another option for the pump I found is Jag rebuilt, $690 less $150 if you exchange; 348 pressure switch (if the Jaguar one has different pressure settings) can be swapped-in.

    The ATE MC-ABS was also used in some American cars, one example is 1989-1992 Thunderbird. Good article at Anti-Lock Braking System - Super Coupe Club of Iowa.
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 24, 2016
    #40
  16. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    Ford Thunderbird ABS Pump, somewhat different pump body but it can probably be fitted. You cannot get just the Jag or 348 pressure switch for this price (and the Ford switch is same colour as the 348's, probably the same).
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    m.stojanovic, Mar 25, 2016
    #41
  17. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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    Not bad for 1/5 the price. I used a T-bird accumulator to replace my Ferrari unit when it died. Works fine.
     
    pnicholasen, Mar 25, 2016
    #42
  18. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    m.stojanovic, Mar 26, 2016
    #43
  19. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    And to wrap-up the story, an excellent source of EPDM O-rings (USA): EPDM O-Rings

    They also do odd sizes by special order. As for the teflon square rings (there are three of them in the MC Actuator, different sizes), this company may be able to custom make them. They do have a large selection of teflon rings but they are all circular.
     
    m.stojanovic, Mar 27, 2016
    #44
  20. Brewman

    Brewman Formula Junior

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    I searched the web and found three different contacts for ATE, two in Germany and one in the US. I sent E-mails to all three asking for availability of either rebuild services, rebuild kits, or a parts list. Replies to all three were the same " Sorry, parts are not available for this item. Once the OE discontinues support we do also. ".

    In the meantime I purchased a cylinder on EBay for a 94 348. Planning to attempt to source seals and rebuild it. Will update later on results.

    Brewman
     
    Brewman, Apr 14, 2016
    #45
  21. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    Just received an MC kit for Ford Granada (ATE 23.8mm) by Autofren D1233 (Spain), GBP 9 on Ebay and the kit contains two (identical) seals that fit the 348 MC 23.8 mm bore. The original seal (Jag MC) is, by the way, made in Italy and looks a bit better quality than the Autofren replacement (left on the pics). Otherwise, they are identical.
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    m.stojanovic, Apr 15, 2016
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  22. Brewman

    Brewman Formula Junior

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    Great information. Thanks for sharing.
     
    Brewman, Apr 16, 2016
    #47
  23. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    +348!
     
    ///Mike, Apr 16, 2016
    #48
  24. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

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    348Jeff, Apr 27, 2016
    #49
  25. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie Silver Subscribed

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    m.stojanovic, Apr 28, 2016
    #50
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